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Once on the brink of eradication, syphilis is raging again
- imdsm 6y agoMeth, not even once
- qrbLPHiKpiux 6y agoDrugs. Casual sex. Homosexuals. Poor judgement. Check. Makes sense.
- kickout 6y agoI downvoted because of the waft of moralism in your comment.
- torstenvl 6y agoHi. Gay dude here. Please don't silence the voices calling my community out for bad behavior. There is a reason to have empathy for those who struggle with promiscuity and substance abuse. How long can you be told that your sex life belongs in the gutter and you don't deserve love, after all, before you begin to believe it yourself? But there isn't a reason to ignore those problems. They lead to social isolation and death for countless of us. We need the social structures, social support, and social expectations of stability and sobriety. The lack of these things leaves a trail of STIs, T overdoses, and abject loneliness in its wake.
- vidarh 6y agoThere's a way to call it out, and it's with substantive comments like yours talking about the problem. On HN at least it's not with a one liner that stereotypes a whole group of people with drug use and irresponsible behaviour like the now-dead comment did. I for one flagged that comment not because it called out the problem, but for how it did it without contributing anything useful.
- zozbot234 6y ago> Please don't silence the voices calling my community out for bad behavior. Bad behavior should of course be called out, but there's no need to reference harmful stereotypes such as a supposed "gay (or 'homosexual') community". Many people with a same-sex orientation do not engage in problematic behavior of any sort.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- kickout 6y agoNot sure if you're replying to me or the flagged comment, but I have no issues with anyone's sexual identity or choices. I downvoted the flagged comment because judging from the tone, that commenter DID have a problem with it.
- FpUser 6y agoSome opinions here feel dead wrong to me. Moralism included. However I did not downvote a single post on HN as I am a firm believer that this up/downvote culture leads to people adjusting their behavior to suit the average / PC and also leads to "mob lynching". It stands complete opposite to free speech in my opinion.
- isoprophlex 6y agoI interpreted that differently: no moralism but harsh objectivity. Granted, it's not the most empathetic response, but the gay scene has some very unhealthy subcultures. Drug-fueled disinhibition isn't healthy, and this syphilis outbreak goes to show it.
- refurb 6y agoMoralism? Or just moralism you disagree with? Because I assume you have morals.
- dang 6y agoWe've banned this account for abusing the site badly and ignoring our request to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26695867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26695867
- metalliqaz 6y agoIf humanity lasts for more than another two centuries, I'd be surprised.
- Craighead 6y agoAnother apathetic holier than thou post about humanity destroying itself. be best hn
- devit 6y agoThe issue is presumably that free, easily accessible and anonymous testing is not available in San Francisco. Where it's available, you just do a blood test every 3 months, test for HIV and syphilis and start therapy if positive.
- metalliqaz 6y agoAre those tests practical? In the article, it says that diagnosis is not easy.
- devit 6y agoIt's just a normal blood test, routinely done as part of STD screening along with the HIV test.
- zabzonk 6y agoDiagnosis of syphilis is pretty straightforward, given a reasonable-sized blood sample - there are several simple tests (which tend to have quite high false-positive rates, which is good for a screening test) and then you can do something more complex and specific like imuno-fluorescence. Speaking as an ex microbiologist.
- kjakm 6y agoMaybe this will change post-Covid? In my city (not-US) you can order an STD test kit online, provide a small blood sample (pin prick and then fill small tube from finger) + urine sample, post it back (free), and get the results texted back to you (or on your online account) in a few days. It's 100% free. Maybe governments will see more value in catching these things and stopping them before they spread further.
- bregma 6y agoIn my country sending biohazard materials through the post is illegal. You need specially-licensed couriers to transport it. This is in fact a reasonable restriction. The same restriction that applies to explosives or nuclear materials. There's also the very real problem of personal data security here, at many levels. This sounds like a poorly conceived services ripe for exploitation.
- casualComment2 6y agoI remember getting flagged on HN and banned on reddit for pointing out that an overreaction toward Coronavirus is going to cause our resources to be misused to "save" a rounding error of people at best. Here is one of those examples. Not to mention I imagine most drug research went on halt for a year in an effort to find a vaccine for Corona. What percentage of people are going to die because our politicians and influential scientists couldn't do high school level statistics?
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- SamoyedFurFluff 6y agoIsn’t meth one of those things taken out of despair? Is there a root cause here that Isn’t being dug into?
- emodendroket 6y agoI’m sure it is but I’m not sure how much overlap there is between that group and the meth-fueled orgy group.
- SamoyedFurFluff 6y agoI think if you’re taking highly addictive stimulants and doing things you later acknowledge as unsafe like unprotected sex I would speculate something is going wrong in your life that’s compelling you to participate in self destructive activities and that you should get help for the root causes of it.
- hn_throwaway_99 6y agoI disagree. Google "meth and sex", and pretty much everything you read will say that meth will make sex feel absolutely amazing. So it could be the case that, especially when people are young, they know the dangers but think "hey, I know myself, I can do it once or twice without getting addicted" The problem with meth is that it's so very addictive that you don't necessarily need to be in a pit of despair to get hooked.
- SamoyedFurFluff 6y agoRight, but my question then becomes why are young 20 somethings being exposed to meth without the support necessary to avoid taking it or not needing it in their lives? I was young, 20 something too, with access to meth— but I had more in my life than drugs, and I didn’t need it to party or have a good time, and I had mentors I could talk to about it. Is something going wrong where there are deeper problems here that the article isn’t addressing, is my question, because it’s not like drastic increases in meth-related diseases spontaneously appear in 20 year olds.
- bb123 6y agoIt’s worth noting that the article describes how syphilis is common in high risk groups engaging in high risk activities in a high risk part of the country, rather than the general population at large. However it seems inevitable that it will spill out into the wider population too.
- disgsu 6y agoIt can only spill if it’s not already present. Since it’s already present, the STD will have a larger “concentration gradient” to “flow” faster. But, really, the STD rates will always be lower among the boring “square” population than the adventurous, promiscuous, one. I’m sure this will be about as popular a soiled diaper here, but “promiscuity” and “adventurous” sex is mathematically welded with risk. Monogamy, and vanilla sex are essentially risk free (barring a botched blood transfusion or something along those lines)
- emodendroket 6y agoThe trouble is that most people are somewhere between one partner for life and regular participation in sex with strangers and that gap is enough for plenty of relatively square people to end up affected.
- intarga 6y agoMonogamy can also be considered a source of risk depending on circumstances. People who want to have lots of sex, will still feel those desires in a monogamous relationship. Monogamy might make them less likely to act on those feelings, but it will make them less likely to test regularly, and stop them from being open with their partners about risks, and prevents clear communication about establishing safe sex practices. If my partner has sex with someone else, I want them to feel safe enough to tell me. That way I can make decisions such as using protection with them that I might not otherwise, or getting tested myself, which I would not be able to otherwise.
- toyg 6y ago> Monogamy, and vanilla sex are essentially risk free Except you cannot guarantee the other person will actually be monogamous. We saw this with the initial AIDS epidemic in the '80s/'90s, when uber-square supposedly-monogamous (and supposedly heterosexual) individuals turned out to be anything but - to the shock of their official partner.
- emodendroket 6y agoWell, the silver lining, I guess, is that this appears to be the result of basically getting a handle on the AIDS situation to the point where it wasn’t a threat.
- labatyd 6y agoAbsent serious consequences (pregnancy, HIV) why would you regularly use condoms? The article covers what I consider to be the critical point. If you don't care about getting Syphillis enough to change your behavior then why should we care enough about it to spend public funds trying to eradicate it? It is very unlikely to have negative consequences, and while they can be severe with things like blindness, so can downhill skiing and we don't spend public funds to remove the danger of downhill skiing. Hell we often spend public funds building skate parks which come with their own small risk of serious debilitating injury and we do it because the people who engage in that behavior are aware of the danger and don't consider it serious enough to abstain from the pleasure. And most critically those of us who want to avoid the danger can quite easily do so, as with Syhpillis. I don't see a problem worthy of the publics attention here let alone the publics funds.
- emodendroket 6y agoI’d suggest reading further into the article where they describe the problems with congenital syphilis, then.
- jeanlucas 6y agoAnd research anything about syphilis at all
- ahelwer 6y agoAre ski injuries infectious? Seriously, what sort of thought process produces these comments.
- danielmg 6y agoAre you aware of the consequences of untreated syphilis? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphilis#Tertiary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syphilis#Tertiary
- batushka3 6y agoIt's all rainbows and pride until one catches STD...
- praptak 6y agoIt looks that at least one aspect could have a technical solution. I'm talking about this part: ""And if the sex didn't go well, then sometimes they will block the person from their app and they don't even know how to reach that person again." It looks like the apps could have an emergency notification mechanism to help with that. Phone companies must implement 911, hookup companies should be required to implement an infection notification mechanism.
- eloisius 6y agoNot sure how this would actually work. You usually have hundreds of matches and few substantial conversations per every sexual encounter. I feel like the signal to noise ratio would make it impractical to get tested every time anyone I ever matched with reported an STI. Would you need to report having had sexual contact with someone to improve accuracy? I know I wouldn’t be providing that data to Tinder.
- clankyclanker 6y agoYou probably already are, via location tracking. Two matches’ phones reading the same wifi access point all night suggests an extremely limited set of implications.
- elliekelly 6y agoUsing that logic basically everyone in P-Town would get a notification whenever anyone else in P-Town reported an infection.
- hn_throwaway_99 6y ago> the same wifi access point all night I see you are not familiar with most Grindr hookups.
- viraptor 6y agoThat could be great, because it could also enable "someone you've been with reported sick, get tested" which would remove a lot of awkward interactions / barriers for reporting. Then again... do we really want dating apps with more or less full network and history of STIs of its users?
- creamytaco 6y agoThis is far from a workable solution. Syphilis and Chlamydia are showing early signs of antibiotic resistance. Really, one has to wonder if an ultra liberal attitude towards sex (enabled by ever declining social mores and various "apps") combined with drugs like PrEP being handed out like candy to promiscuous individuals are not making the situation worse rather than better. In earlier societies, these folks who repeatedly made bad choices would be outcasts and shunned. Today, not only do we enable their idiotic behavior but allow it to propagate and threaten the rest of society. The biblical passages about Sodom and Gomorrah come to mind.
- emodendroket 6y agoWhatever your opinions about casual sex it seems unlikely we’re putting the genie back in the bottle.
- sokoloff 6y agoDeciding to have sex with other consenting adults is hardly something that seems "idiotic behavior" to me.
- ReptileMan 6y agoIs this valid for parties during corona. I remember a lot of people scolding consenting adults about gathering and drinking a pint.
- SketchySeaBeast 6y agoIn both cases the bad behaviour is not wearing appropriate protection and both should be scolded.
- est31 6y agoI think that was the point of ReptileMan. I found their post to contain sarcasm, but it might not have reached everyone.
- hn_throwaway_99 6y agoI'm very curious about the impact of PrEP. On one hand, condomless sex has absolutely exploded in the gay community since PrEP, and honestly, why not? As the saying goes, "Who wants to chew gum with the wrapper on?" But PrEP also requires frequent and regular STD testing, so these cases of syphilis should be caught and treated early before they have much of a chance to spread.
- londons_explore 6y agoI would take a guess that lots of people take PrEP but skip the STD testing...
- hn_throwaway_99 6y agoPrEP is prescribed, must be taken continually to be effective, and if a doctor prescribes it without STD tests they're committing malpractice.
- londons_explore 6y agoBut a lot of people just buy it from illegal sites online to avoid the hassle/paperwork/cost/time of a GP visit.
- dashundchen 6y agoAre people getting PrEP illegally? I would think that would be ridiculously expensive in the US as most states or insurance companies have some sort of plan to cover it (if not the coupon program from the manufacturer, Gilead. In New York State it's essentially free. It would also be dangerous to be taking PrEP and not getting the required kidney function tests with it ever 90 days (the older version of PrEP can be hard on some people's kidneys). I do see advertisements for legitimate mail-order services where you do consult with a doctor, and perform the tests at home. Looking at one site, if you have no coverage, it's $164 for kidney and STI testing, $94 for just the required kidney tests. So some may just opt out to save money. But again, I would be surprised if there's many people paying out of pocket for the whole treatment.
- spurgu 6y agoArchive link: https://archive.is/v8Kbk https://archive.is/v8Kbk I couldn't get past the cookie consent screen. Might require JS. Don't care. Went straight to Archive.is.
- abrowne 6y agoNPR has a text-only version: https://text.npr.org/986997576 https://text.npr.org/986997576
- CyberRabbi 6y ago> Experts point to the advent of dating apps, less condom use and an increase in meth. This comes with the explosion of casual sex in recent times. Also STI throat cancers are on the rise from the explosion of oral sex. [1] maybe due to the novel widespread availability of internet video pornography and increased normalization in media relative to past decades. [1] https://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/hpv-genital-warts/news/20090729/oral-sex-cause-throat-cancer-rise https://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/hpv-genital-warts/ne...
- ycombinete 6y agoI'm quite sure the normalisation of analingus, and general anal play, in the media will also see a corresponding rise in intestinal parasites in years to come!
- valarauko 6y agoA rise in intestinal parasites might also help bring regulate autoimmune disorders & inflammatory conditions. C diff troubles? Analingus - just what the doctor ordered.
- Redoubts 6y agoReally was a case of ligma after all.
- CyberRabbi 6y agoReminds me of this article I read: http://www.newnownext.com/ive-contracted-my-third-gastrointestinal-parasite-from-rimming-and-i-cant-be-the-only-gay-man-suffering/01/2018/ http://www.newnownext.com/ive-contracted-my-third-gastrointe...
- ahelwer 6y agoThere is no such explosion. Younger people are having less sex than the older generation. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2767066 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle...
- Frost1x 6y ago>With the risk of contracting a deadly disease falling to almost zero, condoms fell even more out of favor than they already were, says Park. >"If one man is taking PrEP and the other one is virally suppressed, there's no HIV risk at all," she says. "So why use condoms if you don't mind having a touch of syphilis?" Humans really do take for granted the efficacy of antibacterials and antibiotics across the board. These sort of harmful bacteria are completely and safely treatable now in most people, but the real potential threat is breeding drug resistant strains of bacteria, microorganisms and viruses. We shouldn't treat these fantastic tools like a pass to do whatever, we should instead use them sparingly and curb behavior. There are plenty of simple preventative practices than can reduce ever needing such treatments while mostly being able to continue doing what you'd like. A huge amount of these infections could be reduced drastically just by using a condom. Rely on those prevention approaches first and drugs/treatment second to reduce the risk of creating situations where treatments don't exist. This can be said about a huge swath of preventable disease in the US. A bit of diet, exercise, and an once of prevention is worth its weight in gold.
- Perseids 6y agoAnd one other thing: Cheap, anonymous tests for everyone. It should be the norm that when you hook up with a new person / one night stand that you show them your recent negative test result. At least where I live (Germany) you can already get them sent to your home for 50€ (https://samhealth.de/ https://samhealth.de/) and you can get free tests at your local health office (Gesundheitsamt) if you are not too shy to argue a bit. AFAICT it should be a net positive for society to completely subsidize home tests for everyone, but that is probably an uphill battle against conservative prejudices even in Germany. > A bit of diet, exercise, and an once of prevention is worth its weight in gold. All those cases of just eating less sugar / exercising more / sitting less are unfortunately really hard for most individuals. We really should strive to create environments where doing the good thing is as easy as possible. Like offering free daily work breaks for sport or having healthy lunch meals for children in school.
- rayiner 6y ago> AFAICT it should be a net positive for society to completely subsidize home tests for everyone, but that is probably an uphill battle against conservative prejudices even in Germany. Great, now we’re “prejudiced” for not wanting to subsidize other people’s risky sexual behavior. Did it ever occur to you that if there is, as you suggest, a large health burden associated with casual sex culture (and, according to the article, drug use culture), that maybe the “conservatives” are correct to be “prejudiced” against it?
- EGreg 6y agoFactory farming is accelerating the rise of superbugs
- jMyles 6y agoThe superiority complex over 'wet markets' is especially odious in light of this.
- i_haz_rabies 6y agoWhy is it that any criticism of factory farming seems to get downvotes (like your comment and parent comment) on HN?
- minikites 6y agoMeat eaters don't want to feel guilty.
- Dumblydorr 6y agoTo make this explicit: HN users shouldn't be downvoting due to disagreement or personal feelings of embarrassment. If the comment is too short and doesn't contribute towards a deeper conversation, that could be why it gets downvoted. For instance, though I agree meat eaters may not like the above, it's also possible others simply feel the comments are low effort compared to other comments.
- the_only_law 6y ago> HN users shouldn't be downvoting due to disagreement or personal feelings of embarrassment FWIW, this has been debated several times recently, and generally some one ends up quoting some PG comment about how downvoting as disagreements is fine.
- Dumblydorr 6y ago
- inglor_cz 6y agoI wonder if we can develop vaccination against syphilis. With all the progress made because of Covid, it might just be possible. Syphilis has been a big vaccination challenge. Edit: Why I am getting downvoted for this of all things? Do people hate syphilis victims so much? Not everyone who catches syphilis is a raging cheater.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y agoI thought syphilis couldn't have a vaccine because it's a bacteria?
- inglor_cz 6y agoThere are vaccines against some diseases caused by bacteria: Plague vaccine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_vaccine Diphtheria vaccine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphtheria_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphtheria_vaccine BCG vaccine against tuberculosis - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCG_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCG_vaccine Typhoid vaccine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_vaccine Cholera vaccine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholera_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholera_vaccine
- TacticalMalice 6y agoAnd not just Syphilis unfortunately. In Amsterdam and surrounding cities Hepatitis C is on the rise in MSM on PreP.
- golergka 6y agoIt seems that chemsex goes hand in hand with STDs. Russian AIDS epidemic seems to be connected to mephedrone just like this thing is connected to meth.
- sonicggg 6y agoDo people seriously believe antibiotics are magic shots that make you whole again? Syphilis is associated with serious sequela, some that only show up years later. When humans build a great tool to eradicate a disease, people think it's a free pass to do anything. Sometimes I think we deserve whatever pandemic is thrown at us.
- CyberRabbi 6y agoI was recently shocked to learn that a large percentage of my friend group sincerely believes we will be the first generation to live forever due to advances in medical science. I think an unbridled optimism in medical technology is part of certain subcultures.