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One of the most important philosophers of enlightenment/industrial era was Jeremy Bentham... of utilitarian fame. He designed a building called a Panopticon, a

One of the most important philosophers of enlightenment/industrial era was Jeremy Bentham... of utilitarian fame. He designed a building called a Panopticon, a design for a factory that allows many workers to be monitored closely by managers. He also thought it would make a good design for prisons, another interest areas. A lot of modern prisons resemble/derive from the Panopticon. We need to remember that not everything is a new problem. Digitisation creates new privacy avenues which can be violate or defend. The bigger picture often stays the same. Solving problems by exercising more rigorous control over workers... in ways they don't like. I think many HN-ers have a certain class blindness about these issues. A lot of jobs require urine tests, monitor employee's screens, motivate using cctv, etc. Some jobs actually require this. Often though, it's just a class thing. Urine tests for CS agents and warehouse workers. None for programmers.

TeMPOraL 6y ago
The core difference that makes this new problem more worrying is, Panopticon only created a perception of being constantly watched. The managers/guards could see into every cell, but not all of them at the same time - but the workers/prisoners couldn't know if they're being watched at any given moment, so they had to assume they were. As bad as it is, it's still better than actually being constantly watched.
- dalbasal 6y ago
  Well... we'll see. It's not the first time for "actually being constantly watched" either. eg stazi/etc. There is somewhat of a distinction between spying to sell you papmers and spying to maintain political power/stability. The latter can get bad fast. Ad businesses can be creepy, but their motivation is mostly just to sell you stuff. In both cases, it doesn't feel great at first... but you do get used to it. Spying to make you sell pampers... that can go either way. Whatever lock-in powers Apple or FB wield... bosses have more power over employees than retailers over consumers. Add privacy belligerence to labour relations... third party ecosystems. don't panic.

TeMPOraL 6y ago

The core difference that makes this new problem more worrying is, Panopticon only created a perception of being constantly watched. The managers/guards could see into every cell, but not all of them at the same time - but the workers/prisoners couldn't know if they're being watched at any given moment, so they had to assume they were. As bad as it is, it's still better than actually being constantly watched.

dalbasal 6y ago
Well... we'll see. It's not the first time for "actually being constantly watched" either. eg stazi/etc. There is somewhat of a distinction between spying to sell you papmers and spying to maintain political power/stability. The latter can get bad fast. Ad businesses can be creepy, but their motivation is mostly just to sell you stuff. In both cases, it doesn't feel great at first... but you do get used to it. Spying to make you sell pampers... that can go either way. Whatever lock-in powers Apple or FB wield... bosses have more power over employees than retailers over consumers. Add privacy belligerence to labour relations... third party ecosystems. don't panic.