4 ms·

You realize Deno is founded by Ryan Dahl, who founded Node 12 years ago, don't you? Perhaps you should be less quick to label anything about it "asinine" or ev

You realize Deno is founded by Ryan Dahl, who founded Node 12 years ago, don't you? Perhaps you should be less quick to label anything about it "asinine" or even "awful hack".

Twixes 6y ago
With all respect to Ryan Dahl, I'm sure he'd disagree with the "asinine" characterization but would also disagree he's infallible - as evidenced by the creation of Deno after Node
- eevilspock 6y ago
  I'm just saying Don't be so quick to judge. Be humble! No one is infallible. That said, creating Deno after Node doesn't imply that Node was a fail or that Deno will be perfect. Obviously not. Consider that someone really smart has reasons for doing (or trying to do) things a certain way. Be humble!
  - goldenkey 6y ago
    Node is a failure. It's standard library is written ad hoc. Riddled with catch 22s and monkey patches. The development style is just to bolt on more and more variables and branches, endlessly, without any cohesive style. Example of the "common caterpillar" genus of node quirks and the awful antagonistic responses by the dev team: https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/25857 https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/25857 Just take a look at a random stdlib source file: https://github.com/nodejs/node/blob/master/lib/readline.js https://github.com/nodejs/node/blob/master/lib/readline.js ``` if (input && input.input) { // An options object was given output = input.output; completer = input.completer; terminal = input.terminal; history = input.history; historySize = input.historySize; signal = input.signal; ``` It's junior-level code writing all over the project. That is a failure in my mind, especially when I know the library backing my project has to import all that junk hidden from view. See (wontfix) fs.promises.readFile is 40% slower than fs.readFile: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26332774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26332774 Not to mention the awkward political nature. There is a BLM banner on their front page: https://nodejs.org https://nodejs.org .The founder of BLM, Patrisse Cullors, just bought 4 mansions, the last for $1.4 Million USD: https://news.yahoo.com/blm-official-calls-investigation-founder-114017918.html https://news.yahoo.com/blm-official-calls-investigation-foun... Node's dev team is not interesting in supporting the community. They are amateurs who are trying to be woke and add "top Node contributor" to their toolbelt of proverbial ego items. Prove me wrong.
    - pests 6y ago
      Most support BLM the concept, few know anything of BLM the organization.
      - goldenkey 6y ago
        The movement has been co-opted by opportunists just like Al Sharpton did 10 years ago. Police reform is an issue that everyone can get behind. But it's not as catchy and divisive.
    - agnoster 6y ago
      Always snopes before you post! https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/patrisse-cullors-topanga-house/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/patrisse-cullors-topanga-h... The "mansion" is a 3br 2ba, real estate is just kind of expensive in LA. My Bay Area home is actually worth more than that, and I don't see why she shouldn't be allowed to make real estate investments or have a nice-ish house. There's no evidence any funds have been misappropriated, and if it comes to light I'll join you in complaining, but until then it just kinda sounds like an attempt to discredit BLM-the-movement by discrediting it's leaders and organization without any real evidence.
      - goldenkey 6y ago
        Snopes is a great source! /s https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4730092/Snopes-brink-founder-accused-fraud-lying.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4730092/Snopes-brin... https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending-now/snopescom-cofounder-pleas-for-help-says-the-website-may-shut-down-for-good/570330121/ https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending-now/snopescom-cof... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snopes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snopes "Kids, say no to Snopes!"
zkldi 6y ago
I do! And I think node has a lot of flaws (Ryan seems to agree). I do not understand why deno has gone for this route. It seems primed to produce a package manager eventually, and it seems like a bad idea to leave package manager creation down to whoever makes the first decent tool (which is mostly why npm is the standard for node.)

You realize Deno is founded by Ryan Dahl, who founded Node 12 years ago, don't you? Perhaps you should be less quick to label anything about it "asinine" or even "awful hack".

Twixes 6y ago

With all respect to Ryan Dahl, I'm sure he'd disagree with the "asinine" characterization but would also disagree he's infallible - as evidenced by the creation of Deno after Node

eevilspock 6y ago
I'm just saying Don't be so quick to judge. Be humble! No one is infallible. That said, creating Deno after Node doesn't imply that Node was a fail or that Deno will be perfect. Obviously not. Consider that someone really smart has reasons for doing (or trying to do) things a certain way. Be humble!
- goldenkey 6y ago
  Node is a failure. It's standard library is written ad hoc. Riddled with catch 22s and monkey patches. The development style is just to bolt on more and more variables and branches, endlessly, without any cohesive style. Example of the "common caterpillar" genus of node quirks and the awful antagonistic responses by the dev team: https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/25857 https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/25857 Just take a look at a random stdlib source file: https://github.com/nodejs/node/blob/master/lib/readline.js https://github.com/nodejs/node/blob/master/lib/readline.js ``` if (input && input.input) { // An options object was given output = input.output; completer = input.completer; terminal = input.terminal; history = input.history; historySize = input.historySize; signal = input.signal; ``` It's junior-level code writing all over the project. That is a failure in my mind, especially when I know the library backing my project has to import all that junk hidden from view. See (wontfix) fs.promises.readFile is 40% slower than fs.readFile: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26332774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26332774 Not to mention the awkward political nature. There is a BLM banner on their front page: https://nodejs.org https://nodejs.org .The founder of BLM, Patrisse Cullors, just bought 4 mansions, the last for $1.4 Million USD: https://news.yahoo.com/blm-official-calls-investigation-founder-114017918.html https://news.yahoo.com/blm-official-calls-investigation-foun... Node's dev team is not interesting in supporting the community. They are amateurs who are trying to be woke and add "top Node contributor" to their toolbelt of proverbial ego items. Prove me wrong.
  - pests 6y ago
    Most support BLM the concept, few know anything of BLM the organization.
    - goldenkey 6y ago
      The movement has been co-opted by opportunists just like Al Sharpton did 10 years ago. Police reform is an issue that everyone can get behind. But it's not as catchy and divisive.
  - agnoster 6y ago
    Always snopes before you post! https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/patrisse-cullors-topanga-house/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/patrisse-cullors-topanga-h... The "mansion" is a 3br 2ba, real estate is just kind of expensive in LA. My Bay Area home is actually worth more than that, and I don't see why she shouldn't be allowed to make real estate investments or have a nice-ish house. There's no evidence any funds have been misappropriated, and if it comes to light I'll join you in complaining, but until then it just kinda sounds like an attempt to discredit BLM-the-movement by discrediting it's leaders and organization without any real evidence.
    - goldenkey 6y ago
      Snopes is a great source! /s https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4730092/Snopes-brink-founder-accused-fraud-lying.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4730092/Snopes-brin... https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending-now/snopescom-cofounder-pleas-for-help-says-the-website-may-shut-down-for-good/570330121/ https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending-now/snopescom-cof... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snopes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snopes "Kids, say no to Snopes!"

zkldi 6y ago

I do! And I think node has a lot of flaws (Ryan seems to agree). I do not understand why deno has gone for this route. It seems primed to produce a package manager eventually, and it seems like a bad idea to leave package manager creation down to whoever makes the first decent tool (which is mostly why npm is the standard for node.)