4 ms·

I look forward to returning to a time when catching a respiratory virus is an act of nature and not a moral failing.

sparker72678 6y ago
Agreed. I also hope that some stigma of knowingly going out into the world while sick persists. Probably won’t, though.
HarryHirsch 6y ago
Pre-pandemic I had a habit of chucking visibly sick people out of the classroom. No one needs whatever bug they are spreading, not me, not their classmates. This attitude of presentee-ism needed to die even then. We hope it's dead now.
- Arete314159 6y ago
  I once had a teacher in school who got mad at me for daring to take a sick day. As a moral tale, he explained that he taught class even when he had a slight cough, which turned into pneumonia. This was to show how dedicated he was. Whereas I, a high schooler, was thinking, "Doesn't that mean you SHOULD have taken a sick day, so you wouldn't have progressed to pneumonia?" If we get anything positive out of Covid, I hope it's as you say, the cult of soldiering on while infecting others has stopped.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- jokethrowaway 6y ago
  Presentee-ism needs to die full stop. There is no reason to force another human being to attend your lesson if they can pass your exam / go to work if they can deliver the same results somewhere else. (I'm not advocating for forcing employers and school to give people flexibility through legislation, I'd just want to see a voluntary cultural shift)
yazaddaruvala 6y ago
Leveraging a historical perspective (not a judgement about "good" or "bad" or "should" or "shouldn't", just an observation), the world really might not return to accepting a respiratory virus as an act of nature. For example, dumping fecal matter into streams was the norm (still the norm in many places today). Arguably it was and is still considered "an act of nature". However, the modern appetite for such behavior is considered unethical/immoral (unless left with no other options). This story regarding personal and group health vs personal freedom and choice (or ignorance through accidents/neglect) repeats many times in history. Arguably each article of clothing was at one time a unique and major health/wellness conversation within the culture, and either won out or that clothing was lost to time. Similarly in home plumbing (a home without running water is considered immoral), contributing towards smoke/smog in cities is considered immoral, etc. It seems likely that both masks, and accidentally getting a respiratory virus (including the cold/flu - given its death toll) could flip into the immoral bucket forever regardless of the impact to "personal freedoms". I'm not smart enough to know which way it will go or which way it should go. Which ever way it ends up falling, I hope we come out with a healthier society for our bodies, but also for our psyches.
- glofish 6y ago
  the difference of course is that it that, unlike handwashing or dumping fecal matter in the water, there is still no scientific evidence that masks actually work (for reducing infections when worn on the street by a population where most people are not infected) no seriously - I wish I were kidding!
  - nick_kline 6y ago
    I feel like that's misleading. The key thing you said is outside - inside there is plenty of research about various aspects of the protective value of masks in stopping droplets and comparisons of various masks. https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-research-confirms-critical-role-of-masks-in-preventing-covid-19-infection/ https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-re...
    - 6y ago
colechristensen 6y ago
I do hope the moralizations get cut back but also that adults and children stay the fuck home when sick and we can ditch this perfect attendance play through the pain attitude towards minor infectious diseases.

Agreed. I also hope that some stigma of knowingly going out into the world while sick persists. Probably won’t, though.

Pre-pandemic I had a habit of chucking visibly sick people out of the classroom. No one needs whatever bug they are spreading, not me, not their classmates. This attitude of presentee-ism needed to die even then. We hope it's dead now.

Arete314159 6y ago
I once had a teacher in school who got mad at me for daring to take a sick day. As a moral tale, he explained that he taught class even when he had a slight cough, which turned into pneumonia. This was to show how dedicated he was. Whereas I, a high schooler, was thinking, "Doesn't that mean you SHOULD have taken a sick day, so you wouldn't have progressed to pneumonia?" If we get anything positive out of Covid, I hope it's as you say, the cult of soldiering on while infecting others has stopped.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jokethrowaway 6y ago
Presentee-ism needs to die full stop. There is no reason to force another human being to attend your lesson if they can pass your exam / go to work if they can deliver the same results somewhere else. (I'm not advocating for forcing employers and school to give people flexibility through legislation, I'd just want to see a voluntary cultural shift)

yazaddaruvala 6y ago

Leveraging a historical perspective (not a judgement about "good" or "bad" or "should" or "shouldn't", just an observation), the world really might not return to accepting a respiratory virus as an act of nature. For example, dumping fecal matter into streams was the norm (still the norm in many places today). Arguably it was and is still considered "an act of nature". However, the modern appetite for such behavior is considered unethical/immoral (unless left with no other options). This story regarding personal and group health vs personal freedom and choice (or ignorance through accidents/neglect) repeats many times in history. Arguably each article of clothing was at one time a unique and major health/wellness conversation within the culture, and either won out or that clothing was lost to time. Similarly in home plumbing (a home without running water is considered immoral), contributing towards smoke/smog in cities is considered immoral, etc. It seems likely that both masks, and accidentally getting a respiratory virus (including the cold/flu - given its death toll) could flip into the immoral bucket forever regardless of the impact to "personal freedoms". I'm not smart enough to know which way it will go or which way it should go. Which ever way it ends up falling, I hope we come out with a healthier society for our bodies, but also for our psyches.

glofish 6y ago
the difference of course is that it that, unlike handwashing or dumping fecal matter in the water, there is still no scientific evidence that masks actually work (for reducing infections when worn on the street by a population where most people are not infected) no seriously - I wish I were kidding!
- nick_kline 6y ago
  I feel like that's misleading. The key thing you said is outside - inside there is plenty of research about various aspects of the protective value of masks in stopping droplets and comparisons of various masks. https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-research-confirms-critical-role-of-masks-in-preventing-covid-19-infection/ https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-re...
  - 6y ago

colechristensen 6y ago

I do hope the moralizations get cut back but also that adults and children stay the fuck home when sick and we can ditch this perfect attendance play through the pain attitude towards minor infectious diseases.