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I'm saying that the meaning of the text - be it prose, poetry or code - is all that is important. Text editors are tools, like paintbrushes and screwdrivers. Th

by qntm 15y ago

I'm saying that the meaning of the text - be it prose, poetry or code - is all that is important. Text editors are tools, like paintbrushes and screwdrivers. They only important or valuable to the extent that they enable us to create stuff of actual value. You can go down the route of text editing as art, like that Vi Golf concept that was floating around. And a well-made tool is indeed valuable and beautiful to behold. Nevertheless, I maintain that a text editor is strictly as important as the text it is used to create.

jerf 15y ago
Honest question: Have you ever witnessed an emacs or vi master at work? Have you ever had the experience of watching one of those guys push some keys on the keyboard and then ask yourself how the bloody hell they just did that complicated manipulation in two seconds, when it would have taken you 45? That stuff adds up, more than linearly because they'll do things you wouldn't even consider due to effort. (You won't even consciously decide not to do them, you won't even consider them as a possible option.) (The other day somebody linked a site that extracts the top 100 comments for any HN user. Somebody else started creating links to all the users on the leaderboard. I happened to catch them halfway through linkifying the people on the user board. You never would have caught me halfway through such a task, because I would have used an emacs macro to linkify one, then repeat it 99 times as quickly as I please. And I'm not very good with emacs. Many other tools can do this too, of course.) Be sure you actually know what tool mastery looks like before you downplay the importance of tool mastery. Sure, what matters is results, but tools profoundly and inescapably influence the results you get, so while "all that matters is results" is a true statement on the surface, the actual claim being made underneath about the irrelevance of tools is deeply, deeply false.
AlexandrB 15y ago
This still isn't an argument against using powerful text editors. If you're doing carpentry, both a hand-driver and a power-drill can drive screws, but one will get the job done faster. The advantage is, of course, situational; but power is especially important when refactoring and modifying existing text/code where being able to automate repetitive changes can speed things up significantly.
- qntm 15y ago
  Of course it isn't an argument against powerful text editors. It's an argument against obtuse text editors.
dasil003 15y ago
> Nevertheless, I maintain that a text editor is strictly as important as the text it is used to create. Absolutely. And what is the importance of that text to you? To me it is both my passion and my livelihood. In aggregate it's clearly #2 only to my family.

by qntm 15y ago

jerf 15y ago

Honest question: Have you ever witnessed an emacs or vi master at work? Have you ever had the experience of watching one of those guys push some keys on the keyboard and then ask yourself how the bloody hell they just did that complicated manipulation in two seconds, when it would have taken you 45? That stuff adds up, more than linearly because they'll do things you wouldn't even consider due to effort. (You won't even consciously decide not to do them, you won't even consider them as a possible option.) (The other day somebody linked a site that extracts the top 100 comments for any HN user. Somebody else started creating links to all the users on the leaderboard. I happened to catch them halfway through linkifying the people on the user board. You never would have caught me halfway through such a task, because I would have used an emacs macro to linkify one, then repeat it 99 times as quickly as I please. And I'm not very good with emacs. Many other tools can do this too, of course.) Be sure you actually know what tool mastery looks like before you downplay the importance of tool mastery. Sure, what matters is results, but tools profoundly and inescapably influence the results you get, so while "all that matters is results" is a true statement on the surface, the actual claim being made underneath about the irrelevance of tools is deeply, deeply false.

AlexandrB 15y ago

This still isn't an argument against using powerful text editors. If you're doing carpentry, both a hand-driver and a power-drill can drive screws, but one will get the job done faster. The advantage is, of course, situational; but power is especially important when refactoring and modifying existing text/code where being able to automate repetitive changes can speed things up significantly.

qntm 15y ago
Of course it isn't an argument against powerful text editors. It's an argument against obtuse text editors.

dasil003 15y ago

> Nevertheless, I maintain that a text editor is strictly as important as the text it is used to create. Absolutely. And what is the importance of that text to you? To me it is both my passion and my livelihood. In aggregate it's clearly #2 only to my family.