5 ms·

I'd prefer to live in a world where I'm presumed healthy until proven infected/toxic/contagious. I'd rather not to see yours or anyone else's card.

noahtallen 6y ago
The unfortunate downside of your approach which has proven to be so deadly for us with COVID is when you’re spreading it without symptoms for many days. If our goal as a society is to ensure most people stay healthy and alive, perhaps yours is not a good approach in all cases.
- ghostwriter 6y ago
  > If our goal as a society is to ensure most people stay healthy and alive, perhaps yours is not a good approach in all cases. Most people are not under a risk, it has 99% survival rate
  - gopalv 6y ago
    > Most people are not under a risk, it has 99% survival rate In my circle, there's a friend who has lost his sense of taste and is immensely depressed about losing the ability to tell the difference between steak and spam. He can still taste sriracha, but he is nearly suicidal from this (partly regret for taking risky decisions). Survival isn't the only measure of impact.
    - ghostwriter 6y ago
      > He can still taste sriracha, but he is nearly suicidal from this (partly regret for taking risky decisions). if survival isn't the only measure, then the same principle could be applied to suicidal feelings of so-called "non-essential" business owners who lost their livelihoods and years of savings during the lockdowns. One could argue that a sense of taste isn't "essential" either.
    - jokethrowaway 6y ago
      Losing sense of taste can also be a early sign of depression. I had that (long before covid) sign and it gradually improved as I fixed up my life. Wishing the best to your friend but I would give him hope. I have a friend who got recently diagnosed chronic fatigue syndrome and I doubt that's attributable to covid. I'm very skeptical of long covid claims, I think those are most likely just side effects of the social experiment we just run, socially isolating the entire population and stressing them out for a year.
- JoshuaDavid 6y ago
  How about we wait and see if, after everyone who wants a vaccine has gotten a vaccine, COVID is even still a going concern before we decide that it's a good idea to start keeping a permanent, centralized log of everywhere every person in the country has been (which is what most of the vaccine passport proposals I've seen have been).
- neilwilson 6y ago
  The goal of our society is to allow people to live their lives in freedom - as they wish. Constraining society to pander to those who are essentially scared of their own shadow and are clearly suffering from irrational anxiety and borderline paranoia is not acceptable. It is way past time that those who are scared started to pay the full cost - which means they get to stay out of the way while everybody else gets on with their lives. They cannot be permitted to socialise that cost onto everybody else. Once we have a vaccine, and in sensible countries public healthcare free at the point of delivery, that is as much insurance as society can offer. If you're still scared after that then, as the young tend to say these days, that is a 'you' problem.
  - jokethrowaway 6y ago
    The young don't say it's a 'you' problem anymore: now they want legislation to fix everyone else. This pandemic is just one more step in the same direction. I blame education for indoctrinating the last generations and society for forcing parents to overwork and not be present at home to fix this mess.
- moduspol 6y ago
  > If our goal as a society is to ensure most people stay healthy and alive, perhaps yours is not a good approach in all cases. Prior to COVID-19, we used to be able to acknowledge that we make choices every day that do not maximize the number of healthy and alive people, yet we made them anyway: both on a personal and societal level. That's because maximizing the number of healthy and alive people is not the only goal of society.
- jokethrowaway 6y ago
  Given the mortality rate (roughly on par with 2003), I wouldn't say it proved to be "so deadly". On top of this, a lot of the people who died were already vulnerable, so we will likely see a downtrend on elderly deaths in the next years (all the people who would have died in 1-5 years for other reasons but died now because of covid). Sure, a lot of people died but I don't think it warranted 2 years of isolation and aggravating the already dire financial position of millennials. Our goal as a society is not only to ensure most people stay healthy and alive; we could just put everyone in confinement cells for the rest of their life if we wanted that. I think our goal is to balance that with what people desire are. I'd happily take a higher chance of dying to live the free life I want.

noahtallen 6y ago

The unfortunate downside of your approach which has proven to be so deadly for us with COVID is when you’re spreading it without symptoms for many days. If our goal as a society is to ensure most people stay healthy and alive, perhaps yours is not a good approach in all cases.

ghostwriter 6y ago
> If our goal as a society is to ensure most people stay healthy and alive, perhaps yours is not a good approach in all cases. Most people are not under a risk, it has 99% survival rate
- gopalv 6y ago
  > Most people are not under a risk, it has 99% survival rate In my circle, there's a friend who has lost his sense of taste and is immensely depressed about losing the ability to tell the difference between steak and spam. He can still taste sriracha, but he is nearly suicidal from this (partly regret for taking risky decisions). Survival isn't the only measure of impact.
  - ghostwriter 6y ago
    > He can still taste sriracha, but he is nearly suicidal from this (partly regret for taking risky decisions). if survival isn't the only measure, then the same principle could be applied to suicidal feelings of so-called "non-essential" business owners who lost their livelihoods and years of savings during the lockdowns. One could argue that a sense of taste isn't "essential" either.
  - jokethrowaway 6y ago
    Losing sense of taste can also be a early sign of depression. I had that (long before covid) sign and it gradually improved as I fixed up my life. Wishing the best to your friend but I would give him hope. I have a friend who got recently diagnosed chronic fatigue syndrome and I doubt that's attributable to covid. I'm very skeptical of long covid claims, I think those are most likely just side effects of the social experiment we just run, socially isolating the entire population and stressing them out for a year.
JoshuaDavid 6y ago
How about we wait and see if, after everyone who wants a vaccine has gotten a vaccine, COVID is even still a going concern before we decide that it's a good idea to start keeping a permanent, centralized log of everywhere every person in the country has been (which is what most of the vaccine passport proposals I've seen have been).
neilwilson 6y ago
The goal of our society is to allow people to live their lives in freedom - as they wish. Constraining society to pander to those who are essentially scared of their own shadow and are clearly suffering from irrational anxiety and borderline paranoia is not acceptable. It is way past time that those who are scared started to pay the full cost - which means they get to stay out of the way while everybody else gets on with their lives. They cannot be permitted to socialise that cost onto everybody else. Once we have a vaccine, and in sensible countries public healthcare free at the point of delivery, that is as much insurance as society can offer. If you're still scared after that then, as the young tend to say these days, that is a 'you' problem.
- jokethrowaway 6y ago
  The young don't say it's a 'you' problem anymore: now they want legislation to fix everyone else. This pandemic is just one more step in the same direction. I blame education for indoctrinating the last generations and society for forcing parents to overwork and not be present at home to fix this mess.
moduspol 6y ago
> If our goal as a society is to ensure most people stay healthy and alive, perhaps yours is not a good approach in all cases. Prior to COVID-19, we used to be able to acknowledge that we make choices every day that do not maximize the number of healthy and alive people, yet we made them anyway: both on a personal and societal level. That's because maximizing the number of healthy and alive people is not the only goal of society.
jokethrowaway 6y ago
Given the mortality rate (roughly on par with 2003), I wouldn't say it proved to be "so deadly". On top of this, a lot of the people who died were already vulnerable, so we will likely see a downtrend on elderly deaths in the next years (all the people who would have died in 1-5 years for other reasons but died now because of covid). Sure, a lot of people died but I don't think it warranted 2 years of isolation and aggravating the already dire financial position of millennials. Our goal as a society is not only to ensure most people stay healthy and alive; we could just put everyone in confinement cells for the rest of their life if we wanted that. I think our goal is to balance that with what people desire are. I'd happily take a higher chance of dying to live the free life I want.