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> However, behind this simple and intuitive API there is still a massively complex and mostly unintuitive system And that's a good thing! You can't expect such

by linkdd 6y ago

> However, behind this simple and intuitive API there is still a massively complex and mostly unintuitive system And that's a good thing! You can't expect such a complex use case to be resolved by something simple. Having such an easy, consistent and coherent API to abstract away all that complexity is truly a godsend. K8S on single node cluster, or hundreds of nodes, it just work the same. Moving from one company to another, you don't have to relearn everything. What works on your local kind cluster will most likely work on GKE. What other system do that? And would that system be "simple"?

paxys 6y ago
The API absolutely does not "abstract away all that complexity" though. Which is fine. Any massive distributed system like Kubernetes is either complex or useless. My problem is that in today's "devops" world developers are more and more just expected to be familiar with Kubernetes as another tool in their belt. Speaking from experience at my own workspace, that is a recipe for disaster. As long as the learning curve (which could be weeks or even months) is acknowledged and factored in, Kubernetes can be a very powerful weapon to wield.
- linkdd 6y ago
  I don't have the same experience. At my previous job, the developers were only expected to provide a Docker image with a list of requirements to run it (volumes, environment, configuration). Then it was my job to write the Helm chart and CI/CD pipeline. It was also my job to teach the developers to be autonomous on that aspect. I never got a job where developers were expected to know how to deal with (pre)production servers. Except maybe in startups where everyone is expected to do everything because you never got enough people with the right skill. I even got a developer in my team who didn't even know that Kubernetes existed while the company was migrating from on-premise to Kubernetes (and probably still does not).

by linkdd 6y ago

paxys 6y ago

The API absolutely does not "abstract away all that complexity" though. Which is fine. Any massive distributed system like Kubernetes is either complex or useless. My problem is that in today's "devops" world developers are more and more just expected to be familiar with Kubernetes as another tool in their belt. Speaking from experience at my own workspace, that is a recipe for disaster. As long as the learning curve (which could be weeks or even months) is acknowledged and factored in, Kubernetes can be a very powerful weapon to wield.

linkdd 6y ago
I don't have the same experience. At my previous job, the developers were only expected to provide a Docker image with a list of requirements to run it (volumes, environment, configuration). Then it was my job to write the Helm chart and CI/CD pipeline. It was also my job to teach the developers to be autonomous on that aspect. I never got a job where developers were expected to know how to deal with (pre)production servers. Except maybe in startups where everyone is expected to do everything because you never got enough people with the right skill. I even got a developer in my team who didn't even know that Kubernetes existed while the company was migrating from on-premise to Kubernetes (and probably still does not).