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> Do most people who are not progressive westerners care? Do most people who are progressive westerners care - and by care I mean, "You can tell by their actio

by Syonyk 6y ago

> Do most people who are not progressive westerners care? Do most people who are progressive westerners care - and by care I mean, "You can tell by their actions in life that they believe climate change is a very real problem"? "Reposting something on social media about it, from their new 5G phone, connected to giant datacenters busy crunching their activity for improved targeting of advertising" doesn't really count. How many have put their money where their mouth is? And, certainly, the answer is more than zero, but it's certainly not nearly as many as claim to care about it. Insert the usual excuses here about how it's systemic problems, and one person can't have an impact, and it doesn't matter how you live if you've voted for the right person, etc. It still leads to an awful lot of carbon emissions. If you look at actual life actions, the snarky comment about how a Republican denies climate change and does nothing about it while a Democrat thinks it's the biggest problem facing the world and does nothing about it ends up looking awfully true.

bdbe 6y ago
Systemic problems require systemic solutions.
- Syonyk 6y ago
  They do, and if I'm going on about how horrible meat is, how awful cattle farming and hog farming is, while munching away on a bacon double cheeseburger, it's entirely reasonable for other people to ignore everything I say. I may be entirely correct in every aspect, but if I don't care about something I'm saying to at least try to live aspects of it out in my life, other people are free to determine I really don't care about it in the slightest - and they'd probably be right.
  - nemo44x 6y ago
    I think it’s called “practice what you preach”. No one cares for the sound and fury of the idiotic hypocrite.
    - Syonyk 6y ago
      Indeed. And such sound and fury is wonderfully on display just about every time some celebrity goes on about what everyone else must do to save the planet, them, of course, being able to continue doing the good work from their private jet and mansion in the foothills. Like Thunberg or not, at least she's very evidently trying, as well as she's able, to practice what she preaches.
      - nemo44x 6y ago
        Greta is great. Can only respect her actual commitment to a cause she is so passionate about. She’s real and truthful. If the millions of narcissists that can only manage to tell others how idiotic they are could commit in the same way, they’d maybe actually see the change they want as they’d be an inspiration to others. Rules for thee but not for me.
triceratops 6y ago
> Insert the usual excuses here about how it's systemic problems, and one person can't have an impact, and it doesn't matter how you live if you've voted for the right person, etc. It still leads to an awful lot of carbon emissions. You haven't provided any actual rebuttals to any of these, just "Yeah, yeah, you still emit carbon so I don't have to listen to you". By your standards the only action that's good enough is taking one's own life.
- Syonyk 6y ago
  > By your standards the only action that's good enough is taking one's own life. I'm sorry, I must have missed where I wrote that in my response. I've met many left leaning progressives who view climate change as a very real problem, and the indications of it in their own lives are... well, entirely missing. If you've got a net worth of comfortably north of a million dollars, live in a large home (say, 5000 sq ft for three or four people), commute an hour or two to work every day (in your new Tesla, of course - have to buy to be green!), and take a vacation via jet once or twice a year? I'm sorry, I don't believe that you really find climate change that much of a problem. And, practically, it's not going to be for someone in that position. You can buy your way out of most problems, climate change included. At most, it seems to be an excuse for socially valid consumption (back six or so years ago, "Yeah, I've got a preorder for a Powerwall and a Tesla Roof..." seemed a well regarded phrase among the excessive consumption class). If someone states "Yeah, my house is on fire, it's a really big emergency..." as they're sitting on their couch watching TV with the kids asleep in their bedrooms, it's reasonable to conclude that they don't actually believe their house is on fire. And I apply the same logic to other things people are prone to claim are "huge emergencies." If they're getting the family out of the house, calling the fire department, and discharging a fire extinguisher at the base of the flames, yeah, they believe their house is on fire. You're welcome to assume I care nothing about climate change if you want, though a reasonably quick survey of the other writings I've done on the internet would prove the absurdity of that statement, given the number of battery packs I've rebuilt, transportation choices, solar array builds, and my general (deliberate) lack of regular travel in my life. shrug
  - triceratops 6y ago

by Syonyk 6y ago

bdbe 6y ago

Systemic problems require systemic solutions.

Syonyk 6y ago
They do, and if I'm going on about how horrible meat is, how awful cattle farming and hog farming is, while munching away on a bacon double cheeseburger, it's entirely reasonable for other people to ignore everything I say. I may be entirely correct in every aspect, but if I don't care about something I'm saying to at least try to live aspects of it out in my life, other people are free to determine I really don't care about it in the slightest - and they'd probably be right.
- nemo44x 6y ago
  I think it’s called “practice what you preach”. No one cares for the sound and fury of the idiotic hypocrite.
  - Syonyk 6y ago
    Indeed. And such sound and fury is wonderfully on display just about every time some celebrity goes on about what everyone else must do to save the planet, them, of course, being able to continue doing the good work from their private jet and mansion in the foothills. Like Thunberg or not, at least she's very evidently trying, as well as she's able, to practice what she preaches.
    - nemo44x 6y ago
      Greta is great. Can only respect her actual commitment to a cause she is so passionate about. She’s real and truthful. If the millions of narcissists that can only manage to tell others how idiotic they are could commit in the same way, they’d maybe actually see the change they want as they’d be an inspiration to others. Rules for thee but not for me.

triceratops 6y ago

> Insert the usual excuses here about how it's systemic problems, and one person can't have an impact, and it doesn't matter how you live if you've voted for the right person, etc. It still leads to an awful lot of carbon emissions. You haven't provided any actual rebuttals to any of these, just "Yeah, yeah, you still emit carbon so I don't have to listen to you". By your standards the only action that's good enough is taking one's own life.

Syonyk 6y ago
> By your standards the only action that's good enough is taking one's own life. I'm sorry, I must have missed where I wrote that in my response. I've met many left leaning progressives who view climate change as a very real problem, and the indications of it in their own lives are... well, entirely missing. If you've got a net worth of comfortably north of a million dollars, live in a large home (say, 5000 sq ft for three or four people), commute an hour or two to work every day (in your new Tesla, of course - have to buy to be green!), and take a vacation via jet once or twice a year? I'm sorry, I don't believe that you really find climate change that much of a problem. And, practically, it's not going to be for someone in that position. You can buy your way out of most problems, climate change included. At most, it seems to be an excuse for socially valid consumption (back six or so years ago, "Yeah, I've got a preorder for a Powerwall and a Tesla Roof..." seemed a well regarded phrase among the excessive consumption class). If someone states "Yeah, my house is on fire, it's a really big emergency..." as they're sitting on their couch watching TV with the kids asleep in their bedrooms, it's reasonable to conclude that they don't actually believe their house is on fire. And I apply the same logic to other things people are prone to claim are "huge emergencies." If they're getting the family out of the house, calling the fire department, and discharging a fire extinguisher at the base of the flames, yeah, they believe their house is on fire. You're welcome to assume I care nothing about climate change if you want, though a reasonably quick survey of the other writings I've done on the internet would prove the absurdity of that statement, given the number of battery packs I've rebuilt, transportation choices, solar array builds, and my general (deliberate) lack of regular travel in my life. shrug
- triceratops 6y ago