3 ms·

Viruses are like super mRNA vaccines. They commandeer your cells not to just create a single protein, but to create a bunch of proteins in order to form new vir

Viruses are like super mRNA vaccines. They commandeer your cells not to just create a single protein, but to create a bunch of proteins in order to form new viruses. And unlike mRNA, they reproduce and can stay in your body for months or years. I don't see the huge new risk. I don't know why you have this special concern about the gametes. In any case, if there's a significant bump in miscarriages / infertility from the vaccine, we'll probably know very soon, now that lots of younger people are being vaccinated.

throwaway8581 6y ago
I have special concern about gametes because it’s one thing to risk the health of currently living people, but it’s another to risk the gene pool going forward into eternity.
ryankemper 6y ago
The fact that the vaccines create just a single spike protein and the real virus creates much more is actually one of the issues. First: does the rate at which the cells are made to artificially produce spike protein follow a different curve than the rate at which SARS-2 would? i.e. could mRNA vaccination cause a much more aggressive "inflammatory cliff", thus the huge percentage of "mild" adverse reactions (mild meaning, you feel like death for a day but end up fine with no detectable long-term issues)? It's possible. And switching to efficacy, while personally I think resistance to the spike protein alone will be sufficient, because SARS-2 does not have the same ability to mutate/evolve the way Influenza does (for example, I can't imagine SARS-2 evolving away from the spike protein), it's very possible that the diverse epitopes produced by real SARS-2 infection give a much more robust and enduring immunity.
- fastball 6y ago
  Your point about efficacy is not currently born out by the data, AFAIK. Seems like re-infection after COVID is much higher than infection after vaccine.
  - ryankemper 6y ago
    What dataset are you referring to?
    - fastball 6y ago
      https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00675-9/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...
      - ryankemper 6y ago
        That doesn't compare vaccination to naturalistic rates at all. It just gives rates of reinfection for those with antibodies versus without.

throwaway8581 6y ago

I have special concern about gametes because it’s one thing to risk the health of currently living people, but it’s another to risk the gene pool going forward into eternity.

ryankemper 6y ago

The fact that the vaccines create just a single spike protein and the real virus creates much more is actually one of the issues. First: does the rate at which the cells are made to artificially produce spike protein follow a different curve than the rate at which SARS-2 would? i.e. could mRNA vaccination cause a much more aggressive "inflammatory cliff", thus the huge percentage of "mild" adverse reactions (mild meaning, you feel like death for a day but end up fine with no detectable long-term issues)? It's possible. And switching to efficacy, while personally I think resistance to the spike protein alone will be sufficient, because SARS-2 does not have the same ability to mutate/evolve the way Influenza does (for example, I can't imagine SARS-2 evolving away from the spike protein), it's very possible that the diverse epitopes produced by real SARS-2 infection give a much more robust and enduring immunity.

fastball 6y ago
Your point about efficacy is not currently born out by the data, AFAIK. Seems like re-infection after COVID is much higher than infection after vaccine.
- ryankemper 6y ago
  What dataset are you referring to?
  - fastball 6y ago
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00675-9/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...
    - ryankemper 6y ago
      That doesn't compare vaccination to naturalistic rates at all. It just gives rates of reinfection for those with antibodies versus without.