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I don’t use Signal, nor do I really know much about this situation. But on a quick glance, it sort of reminds me when Keybase added Stellar Lumens wallets. Of

by 40four 6y ago

I don’t use Signal, nor do I really know much about this situation. But on a quick glance, it sort of reminds me when Keybase added Stellar Lumens wallets. Of course, a lot of the friction with Keybase & Stellar was due to the magic ‘airdrop’ of coins, and all the craziness & flood out outsiders not interested in the Keybase mission itself. But, the part that stands out to be, is many of the long time users or ‘die hards’ being very vocal about their distaste for the move. They say it doesn’t fit here, or ‘we don’t need this’, or whatever. But the way I see it, who really cares? Some people will use it, some will ignore it. But if you’re a dedicated Signal user, and you don’t need or want this, why can’t you just keep using Signal the way you are now and not let it affect you? Why does everything have to be some big philosophical nightmare when a feature you don’t care about gets added?

verytrivial 6y ago
Trust. No one's judgement will be impaired by bolting a GIF pack onto a messaging app. VC-backed crypto wants a seat at the table and want you--exclusively--to facilitate the market for the coin? Different story maybe? Can you make the same impartial decisions regarding integration when you are not impartial? (Well, as far as we can divine from the various allusions, hints and allegations .. I mean even needing to ask these questions is weird.)
- 40four 6y ago
  Trust in regards to what? It’s an encrypted messaging app. I presume that’s why you, or any other user has chosen it. You trust your messages are secure, and nobody unintended can read them. What are you suggesting? Are you afraid they will give a back-door to the VC backed crypto vendor? Because my point is, unless you think somehow adding a crypto wallet to some obscure coin is going to jeopardize the security of you messages, I just don’t get it. Just pretend like it’s not there, and keep using it the way you use it. That’s what I did with Keybase. Yeah there is stellar wallet sitting there that I never click on, but I’m still a happy user. I’m just not interested in sitting around and fuming about business practices I have no idea about. They are a big company, and in this world all companies have to ’grow’ year in and year out. Yeah maybe it’s misguided, but I think it’s wasted energy to sit around and be outraged over how some company decides to run their business. And if it is so outrageous, then find an alternative. It’s just so exhausting to read comment after comment of people who think they know better than the people who created the thing. It’s there business they can do what they want with it.
  - verytrivial 6y ago
    At some level you always have to trust whomever is vending the software you use. If you don't audit and re-audit every bit of code in the whole stack for only alternative, as flawed as it is, is doing calculus based upon the reputation and character of the people producing the code. We differ in that I stopped using keybase when the stellar airdrop occurred. That company is now an appendage of Zoom, another company I've watched closely from a security point of view. I imagine you are also a happy user of that, whereas I'm a begruding/throw-away-laptop-under-duress user. I haven't seen the code from either product but have made a judgement based upon their behaviour. This is the topic of this debate. If you find it exhausting reading comments from people trying to explain why they might be losing trust in a piece of trusted software, you are free to not read the comments and spend more time auditing code. ps. There are literally thousands of encrypted messaging apps. That Signal claims to be another is a small differentiator. How does it back up the claim? These lines of reasoning always lead back to the people running the show and how they behave. Short of a State actor using gagging orders to insert back-doors, which is way outside at least my thread model, I moved to Signal because of its claims plus its aggregate reputation.
    - 40four 6y ago
      I’ve never touched Zoom and nor will I. Thanks for the rude assumption though, you can jump off that tall horse. I don’t use Keybase much anymore but for some fun stuff. I still find the the file system useful. Sounds like you will be quitting Signal soon too. Time to spend more time & energy researching which company to jump to next, splitting hairs, agonizing over business practices. Reading blogs & Twitter feeds of company officers and forcing opinions of them. Until 6 months later they do something egregious, and you have to start all over. My main avenue for anything secure now is self hosted Matrix Synapse server. I’m in full control, and I don’t have to waste energy and mental cycles on getting mad about how other people run their business and stirring up outrage in forums. It’s fantastic, low effort and low stress :) I’ve gone down the rabbit hole you describe before, I don’t need a lecture on it. But I decided it’s not worth it. I believe I am happier by skipping all the stuff you’re taking about. Which was really my main point, I didn’t really say it very well though.

by 40four 6y ago

verytrivial 6y ago

Trust. No one's judgement will be impaired by bolting a GIF pack onto a messaging app. VC-backed crypto wants a seat at the table and want you--exclusively--to facilitate the market for the coin? Different story maybe? Can you make the same impartial decisions regarding integration when you are not impartial? (Well, as far as we can divine from the various allusions, hints and allegations .. I mean even needing to ask these questions is weird.)

40four 6y ago
Trust in regards to what? It’s an encrypted messaging app. I presume that’s why you, or any other user has chosen it. You trust your messages are secure, and nobody unintended can read them. What are you suggesting? Are you afraid they will give a back-door to the VC backed crypto vendor? Because my point is, unless you think somehow adding a crypto wallet to some obscure coin is going to jeopardize the security of you messages, I just don’t get it. Just pretend like it’s not there, and keep using it the way you use it. That’s what I did with Keybase. Yeah there is stellar wallet sitting there that I never click on, but I’m still a happy user. I’m just not interested in sitting around and fuming about business practices I have no idea about. They are a big company, and in this world all companies have to ’grow’ year in and year out. Yeah maybe it’s misguided, but I think it’s wasted energy to sit around and be outraged over how some company decides to run their business. And if it is so outrageous, then find an alternative. It’s just so exhausting to read comment after comment of people who think they know better than the people who created the thing. It’s there business they can do what they want with it.
- verytrivial 6y ago
  At some level you always have to trust whomever is vending the software you use. If you don't audit and re-audit every bit of code in the whole stack for only alternative, as flawed as it is, is doing calculus based upon the reputation and character of the people producing the code. We differ in that I stopped using keybase when the stellar airdrop occurred. That company is now an appendage of Zoom, another company I've watched closely from a security point of view. I imagine you are also a happy user of that, whereas I'm a begruding/throw-away-laptop-under-duress user. I haven't seen the code from either product but have made a judgement based upon their behaviour. This is the topic of this debate. If you find it exhausting reading comments from people trying to explain why they might be losing trust in a piece of trusted software, you are free to not read the comments and spend more time auditing code. ps. There are literally thousands of encrypted messaging apps. That Signal claims to be another is a small differentiator. How does it back up the claim? These lines of reasoning always lead back to the people running the show and how they behave. Short of a State actor using gagging orders to insert back-doors, which is way outside at least my thread model, I moved to Signal because of its claims plus its aggregate reputation.
  - 40four 6y ago
    I’ve never touched Zoom and nor will I. Thanks for the rude assumption though, you can jump off that tall horse. I don’t use Keybase much anymore but for some fun stuff. I still find the the file system useful. Sounds like you will be quitting Signal soon too. Time to spend more time & energy researching which company to jump to next, splitting hairs, agonizing over business practices. Reading blogs & Twitter feeds of company officers and forcing opinions of them. Until 6 months later they do something egregious, and you have to start all over. My main avenue for anything secure now is self hosted Matrix Synapse server. I’m in full control, and I don’t have to waste energy and mental cycles on getting mad about how other people run their business and stirring up outrage in forums. It’s fantastic, low effort and low stress :) I’ve gone down the rabbit hole you describe before, I don’t need a lecture on it. But I decided it’s not worth it. I believe I am happier by skipping all the stuff you’re taking about. Which was really my main point, I didn’t really say it very well though.