3 ms·

This sounds like how the Galactica survived in the 2003 BSG reboot. All of the critical systems (fire control, navigation, life support, etc.) were standalone

This sounds like how the Galactica survived in the 2003 BSG reboot. All of the critical systems (fire control, navigation, life support, etc.) were standalone & not networked. The baddies took out all of the new ships & defense networks with a computer virus, and the old Galactica couldn’t be hacked that way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(fictional_spacecraft)#Battlestar_Galactica_(2003) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(fictiona...

heavenlyblue 5y ago
What does it even mean to “not be networked” and on a Galactic spaceship? I can imagine all of those systems need to communicate within their domain somehow, so they need to be connected. You could make a point that they have “not been connected to the internet”, but then it only takes one node to become a bridge between WAN and LAN and you are Pwned. It’s even worse now because there’s a tendency in software development to discount security this way: “we don’t need to think about security because we have a firewall”. I don’t think this is a valid scenario.
- monocasa 5y ago
  I always took it to mean fixed purpose control signals rather than sitting on a common bus.
  - heavenlyblue 5y ago
    It takes only one buffer overflow within a fixed purpose control signal handler to convert any bus into a general purpose bus.
    - monocasa 5y ago
      No buses, only fixed purpose control signals. It's pretty hard to buffer overflow if (read_gpio(Ignition_Enable_Pin)) {
      - nitrogen 5y ago
        But if that GPIO triggers an interrupt, you might be able to get the processor to do interesting things by oscillating the signal faster than the processor can disable interrupts and run the ISR.
        monocasa 5y ago
        That's almost always explicitly handled for line glitch reasons.
        nitrogen 5y ago
        Haven't there been mod chips for consoles that worked by glitching the lines at just the right time?
        monocasa 5y ago
        The one I know of that glitched lines at the right time (the xbox 360 reset glitch hack modchips) worked by glitching the reset line at the right time via a CPLD that had been attached in such a way as to bypass the analog filtering. I agree that this scheme doesn't protect against hardware implants modifying lines, but the threat model discussed thus far was around propagation of software implants throughout a system.
- TaylorAlexander 5y ago
  I think the various ship subsystems were isolated and they used analog voice telephones to request various ship operations from crew in those sub areas.
- jfengel 5y ago
  They're talking about a TV show[1], where one early episode revolved around the fact that they had avoided connecting the computers to keep the bad guys out. (Sorry if I'm telling you something you already knew; the question you started with made it unclear.) The show created an aesthetic like an old submarine, even using set pieces salvaged from other submarine movies. That was an aesthetic choice, making everything look cluttered and cramped and slow, increasing tension in exactly the way old submarine movies used to. In those movies, the computers weren't connected because they didn't exist. Actions were coordinated by phone. It's a bit contrived that they had computers but not networks. It was just a conceit of the show, and actually it was really mostly just in that one episode. But the aesthetic carried through and made for great atmosphere. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(2004_TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(2004_TV_...

heavenlyblue 5y ago

What does it even mean to “not be networked” and on a Galactic spaceship? I can imagine all of those systems need to communicate within their domain somehow, so they need to be connected. You could make a point that they have “not been connected to the internet”, but then it only takes one node to become a bridge between WAN and LAN and you are Pwned. It’s even worse now because there’s a tendency in software development to discount security this way: “we don’t need to think about security because we have a firewall”. I don’t think this is a valid scenario.

monocasa 5y ago
I always took it to mean fixed purpose control signals rather than sitting on a common bus.
- heavenlyblue 5y ago
  It takes only one buffer overflow within a fixed purpose control signal handler to convert any bus into a general purpose bus.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    No buses, only fixed purpose control signals. It's pretty hard to buffer overflow if (read_gpio(Ignition_Enable_Pin)) {
    - nitrogen 5y ago
      But if that GPIO triggers an interrupt, you might be able to get the processor to do interesting things by oscillating the signal faster than the processor can disable interrupts and run the ISR.
      - monocasa 5y ago
        That's almost always explicitly handled for line glitch reasons.
        nitrogen 5y ago
        Haven't there been mod chips for consoles that worked by glitching the lines at just the right time?
        monocasa 5y ago
        The one I know of that glitched lines at the right time (the xbox 360 reset glitch hack modchips) worked by glitching the reset line at the right time via a CPLD that had been attached in such a way as to bypass the analog filtering. I agree that this scheme doesn't protect against hardware implants modifying lines, but the threat model discussed thus far was around propagation of software implants throughout a system.
TaylorAlexander 5y ago
I think the various ship subsystems were isolated and they used analog voice telephones to request various ship operations from crew in those sub areas.
jfengel 5y ago
They're talking about a TV show[1], where one early episode revolved around the fact that they had avoided connecting the computers to keep the bad guys out. (Sorry if I'm telling you something you already knew; the question you started with made it unclear.) The show created an aesthetic like an old submarine, even using set pieces salvaged from other submarine movies. That was an aesthetic choice, making everything look cluttered and cramped and slow, increasing tension in exactly the way old submarine movies used to. In those movies, the computers weren't connected because they didn't exist. Actions were coordinated by phone. It's a bit contrived that they had computers but not networks. It was just a conceit of the show, and actually it was really mostly just in that one episode. But the aesthetic carried through and made for great atmosphere. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(2004_TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(2004_TV_...