4 ms·

I think part of the thing that makes this more difficult is that some people already have practically no risk of suffering health consequences from COVID-19, an

by Vinnl 6y ago

I think part of the thing that makes this more difficult is that some people already have practically no risk of suffering health consequences from COVID-19, and possibly (but also possibly not) do risk suffering health consequences from the vaccination.

fastball 6y ago
This is not really true, as demonstrated by the PDF linked in the GC.
- ryankemper 6y ago
  It is true; the PDF linked in the GC has to make a number of assumptions and is very obviously made from a point of bias (which does not invalidate its claims but warrants extra scrutiny). Also it's comparing raw ICU admissions, but there are a number of really nasty adverse reactions that don't throw you in the ICU. The general "second shot syndrome" that something like half of people getting Pfizer/Moderna experience is a great example of that. Yeah it's not bad enough to send them to the ICU, but for many people COVID-19 would be literally asymptomatic or would be minimally symptomatic, whereas the second shot syndrome can be quite brutal.
  - fastball 6y ago
    Why do you assume that people who are getting second shot syndrome would be the same people who would have asymptomatic COVID-19? That seems... far-fetched at best.
    - ryankemper 6y ago
      Second shot syndrome is apparently worse in the young (20's / 30's) due to the stronger immune response. I wasn't assuming that everyone who gets the syndrome would be asymp. but just that many would.
  - gnfargbl 6y ago
    > is very obviously made from a point of bias Why do you believe that? It seems to me that the reputational damage caused by the U of C centre putting out bad slides is going to be stronger than any benefit they might get from being "seen to be a team player" or similar. Skepticism is always good but in this particular case, I do trust that evidence. > there are a number of really nasty adverse reactions that don't throw you in the ICU OK, but you can make the same argument for COVID. It seems to me that the slides are at least comparing apples with apples.
    - ryankemper 6y ago
      > OK, but you can make the same argument for COVID. It seems to me that the slides are at least comparing apples with apples. If you look at the rates of acute side effects to the vaccines, I forget the exact number but it's at least like 80%. It's insanely high. SARS-2 absolutely does not produce that given the massive proportion of asymptomatic individuals and significant amount of paucisymptomatic individuals

by Vinnl 6y ago

fastball 6y ago

This is not really true, as demonstrated by the PDF linked in the GC.

ryankemper 6y ago
It is true; the PDF linked in the GC has to make a number of assumptions and is very obviously made from a point of bias (which does not invalidate its claims but warrants extra scrutiny). Also it's comparing raw ICU admissions, but there are a number of really nasty adverse reactions that don't throw you in the ICU. The general "second shot syndrome" that something like half of people getting Pfizer/Moderna experience is a great example of that. Yeah it's not bad enough to send them to the ICU, but for many people COVID-19 would be literally asymptomatic or would be minimally symptomatic, whereas the second shot syndrome can be quite brutal.
- fastball 6y ago
  Why do you assume that people who are getting second shot syndrome would be the same people who would have asymptomatic COVID-19? That seems... far-fetched at best.
  - ryankemper 6y ago
    Second shot syndrome is apparently worse in the young (20's / 30's) due to the stronger immune response. I wasn't assuming that everyone who gets the syndrome would be asymp. but just that many would.
- gnfargbl 6y ago
  > is very obviously made from a point of bias Why do you believe that? It seems to me that the reputational damage caused by the U of C centre putting out bad slides is going to be stronger than any benefit they might get from being "seen to be a team player" or similar. Skepticism is always good but in this particular case, I do trust that evidence. > there are a number of really nasty adverse reactions that don't throw you in the ICU OK, but you can make the same argument for COVID. It seems to me that the slides are at least comparing apples with apples.
  - ryankemper 6y ago
    > OK, but you can make the same argument for COVID. It seems to me that the slides are at least comparing apples with apples. If you look at the rates of acute side effects to the vaccines, I forget the exact number but it's at least like 80%. It's insanely high. SARS-2 absolutely does not produce that given the massive proportion of asymptomatic individuals and significant amount of paucisymptomatic individuals