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Also, if there is a severe penalty for vouching for bad people, but not much gain for vouching for someone, will you end up with no one wanting to vouch for any

Also, if there is a severe penalty for vouching for bad people, but not much gain for vouching for someone, will you end up with no one wanting to vouch for anyone else?

karpierz 6y ago
Generally the benefit of vouching for someone is that they join the community, and you personally want them to join the community.
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  Another reason to vouch for someone is that you trust their judgement and want them to have more power in the system to hide content that you personally don't want to see. It's true that this will lead to echo chambers, but by looking at vouching relationships rather than the contents of posts, it should be easier to detect the echo chambers and give people the opportunity to expand their horizons.
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    In a system that tends to reward closing your horizons with a sense of safety and belonging the trend wont be towards expanding horizons. Don't build systems that don't work like you want them to in practice because in theory people could use them better.
    - dane-pgp 6y ago
      Our existing systems already generate echo chambers (due to the emergent properties of algorithms and/or the choices people make when they consume media), and that's in the best case where your horizons aren't just set by the political leanings of the employees of the companies that run the systems that provide most of the content. As long as people could choose different communities that had moderation policies which suited their members, it would allow those who wanted to hear other perspectives to do so, and might make people aware of what sort of echo chamber they are in.
dredmorbius 6y ago
Bad behaviour of this nature tends strongly to operate at scale. Bad actors form massive communities, and quickly. You can look at the rise of various networks, such as T_D on Reddit, or the rapid growth (and often fast decline) of other such forums elsewhere. I find it very difficult to believe that such growth is organic. (Commercial and brand accounts / pages / platforms often follow similar trends, and for similar reasons. Advertising and propaganda are one and the same.)

Also, if there is a severe penalty for vouching for bad people, but not much gain for vouching for someone, will you end up with no one wanting to vouch for anyone else?

karpierz 6y ago

Generally the benefit of vouching for someone is that they join the community, and you personally want them to join the community.

dane-pgp 6y ago
Another reason to vouch for someone is that you trust their judgement and want them to have more power in the system to hide content that you personally don't want to see. It's true that this will lead to echo chambers, but by looking at vouching relationships rather than the contents of posts, it should be easier to detect the echo chambers and give people the opportunity to expand their horizons.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  In a system that tends to reward closing your horizons with a sense of safety and belonging the trend wont be towards expanding horizons. Don't build systems that don't work like you want them to in practice because in theory people could use them better.
  - dane-pgp 6y ago
    Our existing systems already generate echo chambers (due to the emergent properties of algorithms and/or the choices people make when they consume media), and that's in the best case where your horizons aren't just set by the political leanings of the employees of the companies that run the systems that provide most of the content. As long as people could choose different communities that had moderation policies which suited their members, it would allow those who wanted to hear other perspectives to do so, and might make people aware of what sort of echo chamber they are in.

dredmorbius 6y ago

Bad behaviour of this nature tends strongly to operate at scale. Bad actors form massive communities, and quickly. You can look at the rise of various networks, such as T_D on Reddit, or the rapid growth (and often fast decline) of other such forums elsewhere. I find it very difficult to believe that such growth is organic. (Commercial and brand accounts / pages / platforms often follow similar trends, and for similar reasons. Advertising and propaganda are one and the same.)