4 ms·

HN is hardly as diverse a site to moderate as YouTube and Reddit Should all forums rules conform to HN?

tomcam 6y ago
Downvoted for sophistry and complete lack of addition to the discourse. Or do you happen to do a better job moderating a site elsewhere?
anyfoo 6y ago
I personally don’t think your comment puts the effectiveness of moderation is in question, just the efficiency. So yes, I think places like YouTube and Reddit would greatly benefit from similar moderation (the rules don’t have to be exactly the same), but the difference in scale and, as you note, variability in the rules for different parts of those sites makes it so much harder to apply.
- yowlingcat 6y ago
  It's worth noting that IMO, the scale is not just volume (depth) but also cultural heterogeneity (breadth). HN is for all intents and purposes a single community with a stated set of values. It's not a constellation of communities some of which are polar opposites of one another. The question of moderating Reddit always boils down to /which subreddit/ -- I don't even know where to start with YouTube.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - kodah 6y ago
    > HN is for all intents and purposes a single community with a stated set of values In the sense that we all value curiosity, yes. We are all also very different. When political posts go up you see it; value, perspective, economic, and educational differences are all highlighted simultaneously. I think what keeps us from destroying each other is that the binds that bond are curiosity, and those bonds are strong enough for now. dang also sacrifices his sanity going around and nudging people back in the right direction. Those bonds are nothing to be understated though. I've tolerated some edgy opinions on this website, and probably given some too, but I also come here to learn about different perspectives and genuinely do enjoy them even if some offend or hurt me. Other people see those differences and talk about making lists.
    - yowlingcat 6y ago
      > Those bonds are nothing to be understated though... Other people see those differences and talk about making lists. Yes, exactly! I think you nailed the core of it. The communal drive to pursue curiosity is, for now, stronger than the communal drive to make lists; in comparison, there are many large subreddits where you couldn't expect the same thing.
  - krapp 6y ago
    > It's not a constellation of communities some of which are polar opposites of one another. It absolutely is, which is the main reason dang is constantly having to talk people down off of ledges. This site has old-school hackers and new school VC startup hackers, anarchists, communists, socialists, capitalists, libertarians, Libertarians, atheists and believers, alt-right white supremacists, BLM supporters, QAnons, scientists, "scientists", skeptics, shitposting memelords, furries, pro Stallmanite free software zealots, anti-Stallmanite free software zealots, Stallman agnostic free software zealots, FAANG millionaires and people living in their cars. Name a political position, no matter how repellent someone will come along to advocate it, sometimes just for kicks. Name a programming language, you'll find someone who loves it, someone who hates it, someone who's never heard of it, and probably the person who invented it. That diversity is one of the good things about this place, and one of the worst, because it brings out the worst in people. There's a very small domain in which discussion on Hacker News is merely contrarian and contentious, but stray outside of that tranquil oasis and you're suddenly in the Thunderdome being chased around a gladiatorial arena by an overclocked sea-lion and a troll with a sniper rifle. But the troll is civil, and that makes them better than the trolls on Reddit. It's honestly a wonder this place hasn't burned down yet. It's made me want to burn it down a few times.
Etheryte 6y ago
Au contraire, I'd argue HN is a very diverse site but it's the moderation by both users and moderators that makes it seem orderly and uniform. There are many stories that get flagged a-la blogspam, low quality, clickbait etc, and same with comments. Those that don't have merit by the community don't reach the wider audience. I think the conception that HN is uniform is a somewhat common misunderstanding, as evidenced by discussions on supposedly-trolls and the like: it isn't usually the case that someone is shilling or trolling, more often than not it's just someone with a different world view.
- tqi 6y ago
  I think HN moderation works because it is relatively obscure and several orders of magnitude smaller than FB/Twitter/etc. I wonder long do it would take for HN to be completely overwhelmed if a large subreddit decided to come in and start trolling/spamming?
- nullserver 6y ago
  HN is very heavy on Academics / Developers / Engineers. Very different demographics then world at large.
- watwut 6y ago
  There are very few meaning of word diverse that HN conforms to. Education, profession, gender, hobbies, location, all tend to be from one cluster.
dang 6y ago
Could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. You needn't use your real name, of course, but for HN to be a community, users need some identity for other users to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix&page=0&query=community%20identity%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

Downvoted for sophistry and complete lack of addition to the discourse. Or do you happen to do a better job moderating a site elsewhere?

anyfoo 6y ago

I personally don’t think your comment puts the effectiveness of moderation is in question, just the efficiency. So yes, I think places like YouTube and Reddit would greatly benefit from similar moderation (the rules don’t have to be exactly the same), but the difference in scale and, as you note, variability in the rules for different parts of those sites makes it so much harder to apply.

yowlingcat 6y ago
It's worth noting that IMO, the scale is not just volume (depth) but also cultural heterogeneity (breadth). HN is for all intents and purposes a single community with a stated set of values. It's not a constellation of communities some of which are polar opposites of one another. The question of moderating Reddit always boils down to /which subreddit/ -- I don't even know where to start with YouTube.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kodah 6y ago
  > HN is for all intents and purposes a single community with a stated set of values In the sense that we all value curiosity, yes. We are all also very different. When political posts go up you see it; value, perspective, economic, and educational differences are all highlighted simultaneously. I think what keeps us from destroying each other is that the binds that bond are curiosity, and those bonds are strong enough for now. dang also sacrifices his sanity going around and nudging people back in the right direction. Those bonds are nothing to be understated though. I've tolerated some edgy opinions on this website, and probably given some too, but I also come here to learn about different perspectives and genuinely do enjoy them even if some offend or hurt me. Other people see those differences and talk about making lists.
  - yowlingcat 6y ago
    > Those bonds are nothing to be understated though... Other people see those differences and talk about making lists. Yes, exactly! I think you nailed the core of it. The communal drive to pursue curiosity is, for now, stronger than the communal drive to make lists; in comparison, there are many large subreddits where you couldn't expect the same thing.
- krapp 6y ago
  > It's not a constellation of communities some of which are polar opposites of one another. It absolutely is, which is the main reason dang is constantly having to talk people down off of ledges. This site has old-school hackers and new school VC startup hackers, anarchists, communists, socialists, capitalists, libertarians, Libertarians, atheists and believers, alt-right white supremacists, BLM supporters, QAnons, scientists, "scientists", skeptics, shitposting memelords, furries, pro Stallmanite free software zealots, anti-Stallmanite free software zealots, Stallman agnostic free software zealots, FAANG millionaires and people living in their cars. Name a political position, no matter how repellent someone will come along to advocate it, sometimes just for kicks. Name a programming language, you'll find someone who loves it, someone who hates it, someone who's never heard of it, and probably the person who invented it. That diversity is one of the good things about this place, and one of the worst, because it brings out the worst in people. There's a very small domain in which discussion on Hacker News is merely contrarian and contentious, but stray outside of that tranquil oasis and you're suddenly in the Thunderdome being chased around a gladiatorial arena by an overclocked sea-lion and a troll with a sniper rifle. But the troll is civil, and that makes them better than the trolls on Reddit. It's honestly a wonder this place hasn't burned down yet. It's made me want to burn it down a few times.

Etheryte 6y ago

Au contraire, I'd argue HN is a very diverse site but it's the moderation by both users and moderators that makes it seem orderly and uniform. There are many stories that get flagged a-la blogspam, low quality, clickbait etc, and same with comments. Those that don't have merit by the community don't reach the wider audience. I think the conception that HN is uniform is a somewhat common misunderstanding, as evidenced by discussions on supposedly-trolls and the like: it isn't usually the case that someone is shilling or trolling, more often than not it's just someone with a different world view.

tqi 6y ago
I think HN moderation works because it is relatively obscure and several orders of magnitude smaller than FB/Twitter/etc. I wonder long do it would take for HN to be completely overwhelmed if a large subreddit decided to come in and start trolling/spamming?
nullserver 6y ago
HN is very heavy on Academics / Developers / Engineers. Very different demographics then world at large.
watwut 6y ago
There are very few meaning of word diverse that HN conforms to. Education, profession, gender, hobbies, location, all tend to be from one cluster.

dang 6y ago

Could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. You needn't use your real name, of course, but for HN to be a community, users need some identity for other users to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix&page=0&query=community%20identity%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...