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Progressive Web Apps Are Competing with the Apple App Store

38 points by feross 6y ago

haikur 6y ago
Web is the posix of this generation.
astlouis44 6y ago
Apple is scared shitless of PWA's, they know it will eat a chunk of their precious App Store revenue were they to be fully capable on iOS and not crippled... they need to allow push notifications, ship full support for WebGL2 without having to toggle it on manually, I could go on and on...
OnlyRepliesToBS 6y ago
flash did
feross 6y ago
I'm quoted in the linked article, and I wanted to add just a bit more here: It's hard to overstate how entrenched the app store paradigm has become. When you tell people "Hey, I released a new web app" the first thing they do is go to the App Store and type in the name. If the app doesn't show up there, they get confused and don't know where else to look. Really, the only benefit of the App Store model is discovery – much more so than the claimed benefits of curation or security. The web offers an equal, if not better, security model – all web apps are sandboxed and must ask for permission to do anything. The browser sandbox is the most secure and well-tested sandbox in existence today. It has to be much better than native OS sandboxes alone since it can't lean on "curation" to keep outright malware off people's devices. The web sandbox keeps you safe even when you click a link to totally random website that hasn't been pre-checked by anyone. The main issue is web apps just aren't discoverable right now. When you search Google, you get a lot of random stuff mixed in with web apps. I don't think consumers care what the underlying tech is – they just want solutions to their problems whether from a "PWA app" or a "native app". It's indistinguishable to consumers, except in discovery.
- ksec 6y ago
  >The main issue is web apps just aren't discoverable right now. I dont think that is true. The biggest problem is there is no single one button solution to add ( install ) a Web App to your Home Screen. Clicking on Add to Home Screen is not the solution. For example, if you read about an HTML Games on the Web. You dont want user to click on the Game right now and Add to Home Screen. You want them to install to their homescreen with a single button. I am not the usual supporter of PWA Apps because they dont offer the experience a Native Apps offer, even in their best form. ( Things are improving but still not quite there, the last 10% is always going to be very hard ) But that is a small price to pay. The problem is Apple is stopping PWA support at all cost.
- blacktriangle 6y ago
  Sadly I ran into this exact problem. We did a small PWA as a trial to see how our customers would respond. The number of "I can't find it in the App Store" emails we got was massive. No matter how many tutorials we put together showing that you can turn the web app into a home screen icon we sent out, we could not dig users out of the App Store mentality.
  - jamra 6y ago
    You can tell them it requires an invite then link them to your page.
  - ethn 6y ago
    Did you end up being forced to make a mobile app?
    - blacktriangle 6y ago
      Yes, we ended up doing both native Android and iOS, which has been manageable but we're looking to try and push PWA again for the next project to reduce the overhead of dual platform support.
      - raarts 6y ago
bern4444 6y ago
The first iPhone didn't have an App Store. Any 'apps' were websites and in fact, apple had a website that listed various 'apps' the user could 'install' to their phone. I don't remember if these were PWA's or traditional websites, but it was the original model. This is why IMO, web is the platform that will always win. There are (nearly) no rules around it. I can spin up a server, by a domain name, and host a site in an hour without having to pay anyone to review anything and receive anyone's approval. Monthly cost can be as low as a few dollars. I fully believe most native apps could easily be built as web apps with the same performance, animations, and polish.
- rimliu 6y ago
  I have been hearing this talk for more than ten years now. As someone with 23 years experience with the web and more than ten with iOS all I can say: spend some tine learning native technologies. Then you will know better.
  - atat7024 6y ago
    What can I pay you to help me fully understand if your perspective I'd relevant to my industry?

38 points by feross 6y ago

Web is the posix of this generation.

Apple is scared shitless of PWA's, they know it will eat a chunk of their precious App Store revenue were they to be fully capable on iOS and not crippled... they need to allow push notifications, ship full support for WebGL2 without having to toggle it on manually, I could go on and on...

OnlyRepliesToBS 6y ago

flash did

feross 6y ago

I'm quoted in the linked article, and I wanted to add just a bit more here: It's hard to overstate how entrenched the app store paradigm has become. When you tell people "Hey, I released a new web app" the first thing they do is go to the App Store and type in the name. If the app doesn't show up there, they get confused and don't know where else to look. Really, the only benefit of the App Store model is discovery – much more so than the claimed benefits of curation or security. The web offers an equal, if not better, security model – all web apps are sandboxed and must ask for permission to do anything. The browser sandbox is the most secure and well-tested sandbox in existence today. It has to be much better than native OS sandboxes alone since it can't lean on "curation" to keep outright malware off people's devices. The web sandbox keeps you safe even when you click a link to totally random website that hasn't been pre-checked by anyone. The main issue is web apps just aren't discoverable right now. When you search Google, you get a lot of random stuff mixed in with web apps. I don't think consumers care what the underlying tech is – they just want solutions to their problems whether from a "PWA app" or a "native app". It's indistinguishable to consumers, except in discovery.

ksec 6y ago
>The main issue is web apps just aren't discoverable right now. I dont think that is true. The biggest problem is there is no single one button solution to add ( install ) a Web App to your Home Screen. Clicking on Add to Home Screen is not the solution. For example, if you read about an HTML Games on the Web. You dont want user to click on the Game right now and Add to Home Screen. You want them to install to their homescreen with a single button. I am not the usual supporter of PWA Apps because they dont offer the experience a Native Apps offer, even in their best form. ( Things are improving but still not quite there, the last 10% is always going to be very hard ) But that is a small price to pay. The problem is Apple is stopping PWA support at all cost.
blacktriangle 6y ago
Sadly I ran into this exact problem. We did a small PWA as a trial to see how our customers would respond. The number of "I can't find it in the App Store" emails we got was massive. No matter how many tutorials we put together showing that you can turn the web app into a home screen icon we sent out, we could not dig users out of the App Store mentality.
- jamra 6y ago
  You can tell them it requires an invite then link them to your page.
- ethn 6y ago
  Did you end up being forced to make a mobile app?
  - blacktriangle 6y ago
    Yes, we ended up doing both native Android and iOS, which has been manageable but we're looking to try and push PWA again for the next project to reduce the overhead of dual platform support.
    - raarts 6y ago

bern4444 6y ago

The first iPhone didn't have an App Store. Any 'apps' were websites and in fact, apple had a website that listed various 'apps' the user could 'install' to their phone. I don't remember if these were PWA's or traditional websites, but it was the original model. This is why IMO, web is the platform that will always win. There are (nearly) no rules around it. I can spin up a server, by a domain name, and host a site in an hour without having to pay anyone to review anything and receive anyone's approval. Monthly cost can be as low as a few dollars. I fully believe most native apps could easily be built as web apps with the same performance, animations, and polish.

rimliu 6y ago
I have been hearing this talk for more than ten years now. As someone with 23 years experience with the web and more than ten with iOS all I can say: spend some tine learning native technologies. Then you will know better.
- atat7024 6y ago
  What can I pay you to help me fully understand if your perspective I'd relevant to my industry?