14 ms·

We don't know that it has no other effect. We don't know all of the circumstances where reverse transcription can happen in the human body. This kind of epistem

We don't know that it has no other effect. We don't know all of the circumstances where reverse transcription can happen in the human body. This kind of epistemic arrogance is dangerous and is how we ended up with thalidomide causing mass birth defects and other such disasters.

fastball 5y ago
This is not, in any way, similar to thalidomide. Thalidomide was an issue because it is enantiomeric and different effects were caused by each enantiomer, only one of which was noticed. That is not an issue here, as we are talking about proteins. The primary difference though is that there was no treatment imperative with thalidomide, but there is with this. Again, we are talking about introducing something that is guaranteed to be in your body anyway if you contract COVID-19. SARS-CoV-2 is viral to the point where, without perpetual lockdowns/mask-wearing/vaccinations, you will get it. So it is still definitely better to get vaccinated, at least with an mRNA vaccine – please stop spreading FUD. Your concerns could be more warranted for vaccines like J&J which use modified viral vectors, but again, exceedingly unlikely that this could be any worse than the virus itself.
- throwaway8581 5y ago
  You're talking what we learned after the fact about thalidomide. And I'm obviously not saying thalidomide and the mRNA vaccines are similar in their actions in any way. I'm just saying we don't know what injecting a bunch of synthetic spike protein mRNA (a huge percent of which has errors) into your body might do. The same way we didn't know what thalidomide might do, we don't know what this might do. We are not at the level of knowledge about the human body where we can rule out unexpected effects. That is why we have a very stringent drug and vaccine testing regime.
  - Pyramus 5y ago
    I think the point parent is making is slightly different. Let me try to re-phrase it negatively: What we don't know about mRNA vaccines we don't know about SARS-CoV-2 either. Our state of knowledge of the effects of SARS-Cov-2 will soon be eclipsed by our knowledge of the effects of mRNA vaccines. SARS-Cov-2 is only 6 months older than the mRNA vaccines. There will always be unknown unknowns for both mRNA vaccines and SARS-Cov-2.
    - throwaway8581 5y ago
      This is a good point that is being discussed over here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26796998 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26796998
blake1 5y ago
We’ve given the mRNA vaccines to enough people to be highly confident that your fears are ungrounded. The mRNA doesn’t linger more than a few hours. People received the vaccine a year ago.
- yumraj 5y ago
  > We’ve given the mRNA vaccines to enough people to be highly confident that your fears are ungrounded. Wasn't that the case with J&J also, till they decided to not ignore the clots.
  - blake1 5y ago
    The US has administered 250 million shots, of which 7 million were J&J. These numbers, and the fact that the mRNA started trials earlier makes me proportionately less worried about surprise side effects for the mRNA shots. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

fastball 5y ago

This is not, in any way, similar to thalidomide. Thalidomide was an issue because it is enantiomeric and different effects were caused by each enantiomer, only one of which was noticed. That is not an issue here, as we are talking about proteins. The primary difference though is that there was no treatment imperative with thalidomide, but there is with this. Again, we are talking about introducing something that is guaranteed to be in your body anyway if you contract COVID-19. SARS-CoV-2 is viral to the point where, without perpetual lockdowns/mask-wearing/vaccinations, you will get it. So it is still definitely better to get vaccinated, at least with an mRNA vaccine – please stop spreading FUD. Your concerns could be more warranted for vaccines like J&J which use modified viral vectors, but again, exceedingly unlikely that this could be any worse than the virus itself.

throwaway8581 5y ago
You're talking what we learned after the fact about thalidomide. And I'm obviously not saying thalidomide and the mRNA vaccines are similar in their actions in any way. I'm just saying we don't know what injecting a bunch of synthetic spike protein mRNA (a huge percent of which has errors) into your body might do. The same way we didn't know what thalidomide might do, we don't know what this might do. We are not at the level of knowledge about the human body where we can rule out unexpected effects. That is why we have a very stringent drug and vaccine testing regime.
- Pyramus 5y ago
  I think the point parent is making is slightly different. Let me try to re-phrase it negatively: What we don't know about mRNA vaccines we don't know about SARS-CoV-2 either. Our state of knowledge of the effects of SARS-Cov-2 will soon be eclipsed by our knowledge of the effects of mRNA vaccines. SARS-Cov-2 is only 6 months older than the mRNA vaccines. There will always be unknown unknowns for both mRNA vaccines and SARS-Cov-2.
  - throwaway8581 5y ago
    This is a good point that is being discussed over here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26796998 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26796998

blake1 5y ago

We’ve given the mRNA vaccines to enough people to be highly confident that your fears are ungrounded. The mRNA doesn’t linger more than a few hours. People received the vaccine a year ago.

yumraj 5y ago
> We’ve given the mRNA vaccines to enough people to be highly confident that your fears are ungrounded. Wasn't that the case with J&J also, till they decided to not ignore the clots.
- blake1 5y ago
  The US has administered 250 million shots, of which 7 million were J&J. These numbers, and the fact that the mRNA started trials earlier makes me proportionately less worried about surprise side effects for the mRNA shots. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations