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Psychologically, the moment you get the first shot you feel immortal. The CDC here is offering the public health version of abstinence training. Yes, in theory

Psychologically, the moment you get the first shot you feel immortal. The CDC here is offering the public health version of abstinence training. Yes, in theory you should behave like you're unprotected until two weeks after the second shot. In practice, people are going to throw a rager on the first warm weekend of spring, followed by a hedonistic summer, and it would be nice to have more guidelines about mitigating risk in those circumstances, and fewer expecting people to maintain an unrealistic strictness. It's also a bummer to see basic CDC guidelines still not mentioning adequate ventilation, which helps far more than masks do, over a year after we learned the disease is airborne.

lastofthemojito 6y ago
I certainly had that feeling ... until 5 days after my first shot when I tested positive for COVID (which I almost certainly contracted at the pharmacy where I got the shot). Talk about an emotional rollercoaster. Thankfully my case was very mild so maybe the vaccine still helped. But now that I'm doubly protected (natural antibodies and vaccine-induced antibodies?) I'm ready for that hedonistic summer you mentioned - where do I sign up!?
- bserge 6y ago
  You're not double protected, it's the same antibodies. Recovered from Covid antibodies = vaccine antibodies. But that's just how I understand it, I'm not an expert. I don't really understand why people who just recovered from Covid (~1 month) still need the vaccine. Not that I mind it, I just can't get it.
  - idlewords 6y ago
    Because both give you antibodies, but only the vaccine has that microchip
  - lastofthemojito 6y ago
    Yeah, I had some questions about whether I should still get my second dose having had COVID after the first dose. Would it potentially cause any health concerns? Did I even need it? Should that dose instead become a first dose for someone else? Most of the guidance I found was the medical equivalent of "shrug, go ahead and get the second dose", so I did. Hope you're able to get yours soon!
  - toomim 6y ago
    There's no way to make money from people naturally being immune, so regulators have no reason to incentivize that behavior. And tribally, it's not as much of a bonding experience as sticking a painful sharp object into your shoulder and injecting yourself with the tribe's serum.
  - ggreer 6y ago
    The vaccines give you antibodies for one part of the virus: the spike protein. Recovery from covid gives you antibodies for more parts of the virus. This is why reinfection in recovered people is so much rarer than infection in vaccinated people. Of course the risks of covid are much higher than the risks of any vaccines.
  - pstrateman 6y ago
    People who have recovered from covid-19 have fewer antibodies for the spike protein than people who have been vaccinated with the mRNA vaccines. Presumably they have antibodies to things other than the spike protein though, but I don't think the widespread antibody tests look for anything else.
- idlewords 6y ago
  Oh man, that's awful! But your blood is probably half antibodies now. Fire up the BBQ!
ghaff 6y ago
I don't know. People I know, who are admittedly mostly a bit older, are all talking 2 weeks after second jab. But, yes, at that point many plan to start traveling, getting together with people, etc. Fortunately, in the US, we're on pace to have a pretty good vaccination rollout by the time summer really kicks in.
clairity 6y ago
> "It's also a bummer to see basic CDC guidelines still not mentioning adequate ventilation, which helps far more than masks do..." this is somewhat true, but note that adequate ventilation only need be passive, though many will erroneously interpret that as active filtration (e.g., hepa hvac). that's the same sort of logical mistake people make with masks. active filtration helps on the margin, but is not a primary mitigation like distancing or being outside are. > "...the disease is airborne." this part is more murky. it's airborne more like a leaf than a bird, in that nearly all virus particles either fall to the ground or fall apart relatively quickly, on the order of seconds. it's true that what remains in the air for more than a few seconds is potentially infectious, but the chances of getting infected from that, if appropriately distanced or outside, is miniscule (i.e., too small to worry about relative to other risks in our lives).
- idlewords 6y ago
  You're misunderstanding what airborne means. It means you can get through the HVAC on your cruise ship, or at choir practice, or in any poorly ventilated space no matter how far apart people stand.
  - clairity 6y ago
    no, that's mediopolitical narrative talking, to instill fear and promote compliance. airborne basically means 'viable virus aloft in the air', in contrast to something like ballistic motion or droplets. no study has conclusively proven that corona transmits, much less survives, in the air for any appreciable duration. at best, there is some inconclusive inference of it. the princess cruises case, for example, employed some contact tracing (with unreliable subjects) and pcr-tested for (dead) virus particles on surfaces well after-the-fact. none of that comes close to proving airborne transmission (especially not fanciful diagrams of what could have been--those aren't proof, just conjecture). infections were overwhelmingly likely to have spread through prolonged conversations indoors where people were breathing each others' direct exhaust ('droplets'), like you'd do on a vacation, not just by being on the same ship.
    - 6y ago

lastofthemojito 6y ago

I certainly had that feeling ... until 5 days after my first shot when I tested positive for COVID (which I almost certainly contracted at the pharmacy where I got the shot). Talk about an emotional rollercoaster. Thankfully my case was very mild so maybe the vaccine still helped. But now that I'm doubly protected (natural antibodies and vaccine-induced antibodies?) I'm ready for that hedonistic summer you mentioned - where do I sign up!?

bserge 6y ago
You're not double protected, it's the same antibodies. Recovered from Covid antibodies = vaccine antibodies. But that's just how I understand it, I'm not an expert. I don't really understand why people who just recovered from Covid (~1 month) still need the vaccine. Not that I mind it, I just can't get it.
- idlewords 6y ago
  Because both give you antibodies, but only the vaccine has that microchip
- lastofthemojito 6y ago
  Yeah, I had some questions about whether I should still get my second dose having had COVID after the first dose. Would it potentially cause any health concerns? Did I even need it? Should that dose instead become a first dose for someone else? Most of the guidance I found was the medical equivalent of "shrug, go ahead and get the second dose", so I did. Hope you're able to get yours soon!
- toomim 6y ago
  There's no way to make money from people naturally being immune, so regulators have no reason to incentivize that behavior. And tribally, it's not as much of a bonding experience as sticking a painful sharp object into your shoulder and injecting yourself with the tribe's serum.
- ggreer 6y ago
  The vaccines give you antibodies for one part of the virus: the spike protein. Recovery from covid gives you antibodies for more parts of the virus. This is why reinfection in recovered people is so much rarer than infection in vaccinated people. Of course the risks of covid are much higher than the risks of any vaccines.
- pstrateman 6y ago
  People who have recovered from covid-19 have fewer antibodies for the spike protein than people who have been vaccinated with the mRNA vaccines. Presumably they have antibodies to things other than the spike protein though, but I don't think the widespread antibody tests look for anything else.
idlewords 6y ago
Oh man, that's awful! But your blood is probably half antibodies now. Fire up the BBQ!

ghaff 6y ago

I don't know. People I know, who are admittedly mostly a bit older, are all talking 2 weeks after second jab. But, yes, at that point many plan to start traveling, getting together with people, etc. Fortunately, in the US, we're on pace to have a pretty good vaccination rollout by the time summer really kicks in.

clairity 6y ago

> "It's also a bummer to see basic CDC guidelines still not mentioning adequate ventilation, which helps far more than masks do..." this is somewhat true, but note that adequate ventilation only need be passive, though many will erroneously interpret that as active filtration (e.g., hepa hvac). that's the same sort of logical mistake people make with masks. active filtration helps on the margin, but is not a primary mitigation like distancing or being outside are. > "...the disease is airborne." this part is more murky. it's airborne more like a leaf than a bird, in that nearly all virus particles either fall to the ground or fall apart relatively quickly, on the order of seconds. it's true that what remains in the air for more than a few seconds is potentially infectious, but the chances of getting infected from that, if appropriately distanced or outside, is miniscule (i.e., too small to worry about relative to other risks in our lives).

idlewords 6y ago
You're misunderstanding what airborne means. It means you can get through the HVAC on your cruise ship, or at choir practice, or in any poorly ventilated space no matter how far apart people stand.
- clairity 6y ago
  no, that's mediopolitical narrative talking, to instill fear and promote compliance. airborne basically means 'viable virus aloft in the air', in contrast to something like ballistic motion or droplets. no study has conclusively proven that corona transmits, much less survives, in the air for any appreciable duration. at best, there is some inconclusive inference of it. the princess cruises case, for example, employed some contact tracing (with unreliable subjects) and pcr-tested for (dead) virus particles on surfaces well after-the-fact. none of that comes close to proving airborne transmission (especially not fanciful diagrams of what could have been--those aren't proof, just conjecture). infections were overwhelmingly likely to have spread through prolonged conversations indoors where people were breathing each others' direct exhaust ('droplets'), like you'd do on a vacation, not just by being on the same ship.
  - 6y ago