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Your viewpoint is ideological.If you believe in preserving planet earth then what you want is rationing resources. And that inevitably leads to communism. I b

Your viewpoint is ideological.If you believe in preserving planet earth then what you want is rationing resources. And that inevitably leads to communism. I believe saving the earth is impossible with that kind of strategy.There's 3BN of people that will want the same kind of living standards like the rich west and you dont have any right nor influence on what they will do. It's very similar to what we have done during this pandemic with lockdowns.It just did not work and prolonged the inevitable.

ericmay 5y ago
Ok that's fine, but then I may as well use as much resources as possible because fuck it? Let's build lots of unsustainable suburbs - I mean literally unsustainable as in we won't be able to pave the roads or repair bridges and then when that happens we'll just build some more and keep doing that over and over and to what end? I'm anti-communism because command economies suck. I'm capital C Capitalist. But what we're discussing here isn't an economic system, it's a public policy system. The government builds the roads, and creates the building standards, and creates zoning laws, and all of that. The military industrial complex (among other things) helps secure cheap oil to fuel this lifestyle - that costs money. This shit isn't cheap and that's not even taking into account the actual raw materials and resources. It's absurd that we've intentionally built societies around "one person gets in this 2,000 pound machine and uses it to drive a mile down the road" - you could just build cities better and walk. Hell you can do this and keep your car for these inconsequential use cases. The problem is you're defending the enforcement of car use. That's stupid. Sorry. The other 3bn people won't get to have the same living standards. The planet isn't big enough. We'll trend toward a median over time instead which will certainly lead to a quality of life change for the west. The question is do you want to be driving a car and paying $15/gallon for gas or would you rather spend $15/lb for a high-quality tuna steak from a local store you can walk to? I don't view cars as necessary for people to live. There's no reason to design an entire society such that they are necessary, except of course government subsidies to the construction industry (jobs program) and the automobile industry. You complain about communism yet are happy with the government subsidizing unnecessary jobs and construction projects, propping up industries that would otherwise die, and using tools like minimum parking requirements and building new roads to do it. You can call that ideological as if it's some sort of insult or bad thing. Doesn't really matter much. If I'm ideological and have a vision for how things could be, you're ideological and can't see past how things are today.
- EdwinLarkin 5y ago
  I understand your viewpoint but you dont understand mine.And you probably never will.It's not your fault and I wont call you out on arrogance or ignorance or anything like that.It's impossible to re-live the experience. You see I was born to an Eastern European country to a poor family.It was not anything like the US centric media portrays it to be.Definitely not africa or super exaggerated levels of poverty. But we have not had the means to acquire wealth.My family did not have the opportunity to do so.My parents nor my grandparents or my grand-grand parents had that opportunity. You on the other hand were born to a country with excess.Excess abundance of resources and wealth. You have seen that excess yourself and it tainted you.It made you realize that you could live more sustainably. You see I was born to such country were "sustainable" was the default mode of living. You cant demand austerity from your experience of excess.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    I don't understand your argument. I grew up and realized the United States was doing something really dumb, but since I grew up in that environment I can't want things to be different? You're having a strong reaction to this concept of sustainability. Austerity will come one way or another. Probably better to design and plan for it and build nice neighborhoods where you are not dependent on a large expense than not. Anyway, what's so austere about walking to the grocery store nearby instead of driving a mile down the road? Why build so that you have to drive a car instead of making it optional? Btw it would be awesome to buy you a beer if we ever met - nothing personal here. :)
    - EdwinLarkin 5y ago
      Nah you can want things to be different but the change can come at much higher cost than you can imagine.I am often thinking about this sustainable way of living and I always come to conclusion that we cant. I am not sure how possible it is to retrofit adequate infrastructure into american cities but even then you will inevitably have to raise standards.Most people that want to stay in suburbs prefer it because of ... well a lot of reasons. Apartment dwellers usually have an issue with noise coming from their neighbors and there does not seem to be a solution to this problem without raising costs astronomically. I am not sure austerity will come...at least not for you ;-) in the US or other "resource rich" anglo countries. >Anyway, what's so austere about walking to the grocery store nearby instead of driving a mile down the road? Why build so that you have to drive a car instead of making it optional? I dont like to drive. I own a cheap car and use it to get from point A to point B in reasonable time.It gives me freedom no public transport can. I just dont trust the government to be there for me (it never was and I dont think it ever will be). I'd rather support technical solution than ideological. >Btw it would be awesome to buy you a beer if we ever met - nothing personal here. :) I would gladly take it. I am a huge beer nerd.

ericmay 5y ago

Ok that's fine, but then I may as well use as much resources as possible because fuck it? Let's build lots of unsustainable suburbs - I mean literally unsustainable as in we won't be able to pave the roads or repair bridges and then when that happens we'll just build some more and keep doing that over and over and to what end? I'm anti-communism because command economies suck. I'm capital C Capitalist. But what we're discussing here isn't an economic system, it's a public policy system. The government builds the roads, and creates the building standards, and creates zoning laws, and all of that. The military industrial complex (among other things) helps secure cheap oil to fuel this lifestyle - that costs money. This shit isn't cheap and that's not even taking into account the actual raw materials and resources. It's absurd that we've intentionally built societies around "one person gets in this 2,000 pound machine and uses it to drive a mile down the road" - you could just build cities better and walk. Hell you can do this and keep your car for these inconsequential use cases. The problem is you're defending the enforcement of car use. That's stupid. Sorry. The other 3bn people won't get to have the same living standards. The planet isn't big enough. We'll trend toward a median over time instead which will certainly lead to a quality of life change for the west. The question is do you want to be driving a car and paying $15/gallon for gas or would you rather spend $15/lb for a high-quality tuna steak from a local store you can walk to? I don't view cars as necessary for people to live. There's no reason to design an entire society such that they are necessary, except of course government subsidies to the construction industry (jobs program) and the automobile industry. You complain about communism yet are happy with the government subsidizing unnecessary jobs and construction projects, propping up industries that would otherwise die, and using tools like minimum parking requirements and building new roads to do it. You can call that ideological as if it's some sort of insult or bad thing. Doesn't really matter much. If I'm ideological and have a vision for how things could be, you're ideological and can't see past how things are today.

EdwinLarkin 5y ago
I understand your viewpoint but you dont understand mine.And you probably never will.It's not your fault and I wont call you out on arrogance or ignorance or anything like that.It's impossible to re-live the experience. You see I was born to an Eastern European country to a poor family.It was not anything like the US centric media portrays it to be.Definitely not africa or super exaggerated levels of poverty. But we have not had the means to acquire wealth.My family did not have the opportunity to do so.My parents nor my grandparents or my grand-grand parents had that opportunity. You on the other hand were born to a country with excess.Excess abundance of resources and wealth. You have seen that excess yourself and it tainted you.It made you realize that you could live more sustainably. You see I was born to such country were "sustainable" was the default mode of living. You cant demand austerity from your experience of excess.
- ericmay 5y ago
  I don't understand your argument. I grew up and realized the United States was doing something really dumb, but since I grew up in that environment I can't want things to be different? You're having a strong reaction to this concept of sustainability. Austerity will come one way or another. Probably better to design and plan for it and build nice neighborhoods where you are not dependent on a large expense than not. Anyway, what's so austere about walking to the grocery store nearby instead of driving a mile down the road? Why build so that you have to drive a car instead of making it optional? Btw it would be awesome to buy you a beer if we ever met - nothing personal here. :)
  - EdwinLarkin 5y ago
    Nah you can want things to be different but the change can come at much higher cost than you can imagine.I am often thinking about this sustainable way of living and I always come to conclusion that we cant. I am not sure how possible it is to retrofit adequate infrastructure into american cities but even then you will inevitably have to raise standards.Most people that want to stay in suburbs prefer it because of ... well a lot of reasons. Apartment dwellers usually have an issue with noise coming from their neighbors and there does not seem to be a solution to this problem without raising costs astronomically. I am not sure austerity will come...at least not for you ;-) in the US or other "resource rich" anglo countries. >Anyway, what's so austere about walking to the grocery store nearby instead of driving a mile down the road? Why build so that you have to drive a car instead of making it optional? I dont like to drive. I own a cheap car and use it to get from point A to point B in reasonable time.It gives me freedom no public transport can. I just dont trust the government to be there for me (it never was and I dont think it ever will be). I'd rather support technical solution than ideological. >Btw it would be awesome to buy you a beer if we ever met - nothing personal here. :) I would gladly take it. I am a huge beer nerd.