4 ms·

As a European, it would be interesting to know if this story is representative of the U.S. education or one of the worst examples. The story is absolutely chil

by plk123 6y ago

As a European, it would be interesting to know if this story is representative of the U.S. education or one of the worst examples. The story is absolutely chilling. The indoctrination, vague "harm" accusations, the public humiliation and clandestine support all sound very familiar. We had a lot of this in the 20th century. It is always driven by bureaucrats without any real talents who nevertheless want to enjoy a comfortable life.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> it would be interesting to know if this story is representative of the U.S. education or one of the worst examples This shocked my friends who are teachers in New York. Note that this is a private school [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Church_School https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Church_School
flyingfences 6y ago
I've been out of high school for several years and out of "traditional" public school for several years longer so my anecdata might not be the most accurate, but from what I hear and from those I know, this sort of curriculum is rapidly becoming the norm in most schools and has already become engrained in many. There was a pair of articles [0][1] published in The Atlantic earlier this year that offer another account in another district. I found them very well-written and I think they went into more depth and from a different perspective than TFA here. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/03/should-black-lives-matter-agenda-be-taught-school/618277/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/03/should-bla... [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/black-lives-matter-curriculum-has-unintended-lesson/618501/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/black-live...
bittercynic 6y ago
I work at a US high school that's currently engaged with antiracist training for staff, and it's not like that where I am. The training we're doing basically amounts to how to not be a jerk, and some staff members, including sometimes me, need that kind of training. We have some more conservative leaning staff members, and they're broadly accepted. Can't speak for the whole country, but at least where I work this type of training seems to be a positive thing.
- orthecreedence 6y ago
  It's good to hear perspectives like these, thanks for sharing. I hear a lot of damning things about this kind of training from a lot of different directions, but what you're talking about sounds sensible and healthy.
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  I have friends who have been accused online of being “cultural marxists” by right wing students because they corrected the students’ misunderstanding of the history of slavery and the civil war. It is worth keeping in mind that this author have a strong opinion and wrote this article himself. Clearly he isn’t going to present these ideas in a positive light.
  - esarbe 6y ago
    Well, segregating children in classes according to their perceived ethnicity doesn't really strike me as a good idea, now matter how it is presented.
    - UncleMeat 6y ago
      I'm not convinced that this is being presented honestly. It just feels so similar to the straight lies I've seen written about friends.
      - esarbe 6y ago
        I see. Thanks for sharing your concern.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
The single party states always get some amount of of stupid indoctrination. You saw the same crap in the red states when the evangelical Christians had a lot of influence and tried to write evolution out of the curriculum. Now it's the blue states turn to give their kids a bad education. Look at the feedback loops and who's accountable to who and who wants what in the US public education systems and it's clear why these things happen in the single party states. Basically people are trying to please people who they aren't specifically tasked with pleasing but have to as a practical matter. Local officials and administrators implement crap in order to please the loud vocal minority of the local overwhelming majority and the state officials aren't gonna stick their neck out to stop them. Ultimately nobody is accountable for teaching kids anything that can't easily be measured on a test and there's lots of incentives not to teach them to think critically.
- esarbe 6y ago
  Hrm. The USA has many faults but being a single-party state is not one of them. What you describe however is true of any social structure. Vocal, highly engaged minorities dominate the discussion and thus steer normative process. The progression of the process is taken up by the silent majority and societies' overtone window is shifted. It takes another vocal, highly engaged minority to change the influence how the discourse shifts. As soon as the shift in overtone window is noticed by enough members of society, this minority finds together and the shift is halted.
  - denton-scratch 6y ago
    I think you misunderstood; by "single-party state", the commenter is referring to those US states that consistently return candidates from the same party. Of course the union is not single-party; but some of the component states are, in practice.
    - esarbe 6y ago
      Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification!
happytoexplain 6y ago
>if this story is representative Anti-racism education? Yes. This harmful form of anti-racism education? No, this is borderline non-existent. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't take it seriously where it appears. Unfortunately, there is a ton of noise around it. Just like anything you can split across ideological lines, party A would like you to believe this never happens, or is in fact a good thing, and party B would like you to believe this is quickly becoming ubiquitous and we must stop the oppressive monsters at any cost.

by plk123 6y ago

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> it would be interesting to know if this story is representative of the U.S. education or one of the worst examples This shocked my friends who are teachers in New York. Note that this is a private school [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Church_School https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Church_School

flyingfences 6y ago

I've been out of high school for several years and out of "traditional" public school for several years longer so my anecdata might not be the most accurate, but from what I hear and from those I know, this sort of curriculum is rapidly becoming the norm in most schools and has already become engrained in many. There was a pair of articles [0][1] published in The Atlantic earlier this year that offer another account in another district. I found them very well-written and I think they went into more depth and from a different perspective than TFA here. [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/03/should-black-lives-matter-agenda-be-taught-school/618277/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/03/should-bla... [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/black-lives-matter-curriculum-has-unintended-lesson/618501/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/black-live...

bittercynic 6y ago

I work at a US high school that's currently engaged with antiracist training for staff, and it's not like that where I am. The training we're doing basically amounts to how to not be a jerk, and some staff members, including sometimes me, need that kind of training. We have some more conservative leaning staff members, and they're broadly accepted. Can't speak for the whole country, but at least where I work this type of training seems to be a positive thing.

orthecreedence 6y ago
It's good to hear perspectives like these, thanks for sharing. I hear a lot of damning things about this kind of training from a lot of different directions, but what you're talking about sounds sensible and healthy.
UncleMeat 6y ago
I have friends who have been accused online of being “cultural marxists” by right wing students because they corrected the students’ misunderstanding of the history of slavery and the civil war. It is worth keeping in mind that this author have a strong opinion and wrote this article himself. Clearly he isn’t going to present these ideas in a positive light.
- esarbe 6y ago
  Well, segregating children in classes according to their perceived ethnicity doesn't really strike me as a good idea, now matter how it is presented.
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    I'm not convinced that this is being presented honestly. It just feels so similar to the straight lies I've seen written about friends.
    - esarbe 6y ago
      I see. Thanks for sharing your concern.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

The single party states always get some amount of of stupid indoctrination. You saw the same crap in the red states when the evangelical Christians had a lot of influence and tried to write evolution out of the curriculum. Now it's the blue states turn to give their kids a bad education. Look at the feedback loops and who's accountable to who and who wants what in the US public education systems and it's clear why these things happen in the single party states. Basically people are trying to please people who they aren't specifically tasked with pleasing but have to as a practical matter. Local officials and administrators implement crap in order to please the loud vocal minority of the local overwhelming majority and the state officials aren't gonna stick their neck out to stop them. Ultimately nobody is accountable for teaching kids anything that can't easily be measured on a test and there's lots of incentives not to teach them to think critically.

esarbe 6y ago
Hrm. The USA has many faults but being a single-party state is not one of them. What you describe however is true of any social structure. Vocal, highly engaged minorities dominate the discussion and thus steer normative process. The progression of the process is taken up by the silent majority and societies' overtone window is shifted. It takes another vocal, highly engaged minority to change the influence how the discourse shifts. As soon as the shift in overtone window is noticed by enough members of society, this minority finds together and the shift is halted.
- denton-scratch 6y ago
  I think you misunderstood; by "single-party state", the commenter is referring to those US states that consistently return candidates from the same party. Of course the union is not single-party; but some of the component states are, in practice.
  - esarbe 6y ago
    Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification!

happytoexplain 6y ago

>if this story is representative Anti-racism education? Yes. This harmful form of anti-racism education? No, this is borderline non-existent. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't take it seriously where it appears. Unfortunately, there is a ton of noise around it. Just like anything you can split across ideological lines, party A would like you to believe this never happens, or is in fact a good thing, and party B would like you to believe this is quickly becoming ubiquitous and we must stop the oppressive monsters at any cost.