4 ms·

On an optimistic note, I am not convinced that China is going to win any cultural wars. America, for all its problems, still is essentially a leader for much of

On an optimistic note, I am not convinced that China is going to win any cultural wars. America, for all its problems, still is essentially a leader for much of the developing world, at least in terms of culture. People watch American shows, know American celebrities, listen to American music, etc. This is facilitated by the fact that these cultural elements are pretty diverse and are open to immigrants. As in, a guy like Akon or Obama can be second generation American with parent(s) from abroad. This same phenomenon doesn’t exist with China. Most people don’t know any entertainment that comes out of China, beyond a few video games. An African immigrant cannot move to Shanghai and expect his children to be treated as full citizens or even members of the Chinese nation. As long as China remains an ethnostate, I don’t see this changing. The possible, but worrying scenario is that Chinese capital owns Western cultural production, implicitly (see: Disney or the NBA) or explicitly.

BitwiseFool 5y ago
As Americans, I feel like we've gotten accustomed to the idea that soft-power means other nations consume our culture through media. We are used to the world listening to our music, watching our movies, and reading our books. We think that we influence the world through our superior and diverse culture. We want the rest of the world to be more like us. But it seems like the Chinese Government isn't interested in evangelizing the "Chinese Way" around the world. They just want the other nations to enrich the Chinese Economy and fall-in-line during international disputes.
newdude116 5y ago
You know it all man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrQHPbISpHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrQHPbISpHg (Yes, you don't speak Chinese but their call her chocolate girl)
BigW1lly 5y ago
I'd say Korea is actually winning the cultural war. K-pop has taken the world by storm. Hollywood is in decline, if you'll notice, good movies are harder to come by nowadays.
- cameldrv 5y ago
  Yes but a lot of the energy and talent that 20 years ago would have been making movies is now making TV series. Today is the golden age of TV like the 70s was for film.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  Japan is also winning big in this domain as well. Anime has held strong and City Pop has gained a cult following these days.
- the_dune_13 5y ago
  > Hollywood is in decline, if you'll notice, good movies are harder to come by nowadays. Are you sure about that? It sounds like a deeply biased statement.
  - SergeAx 5y ago
    Check out IMDb top movies by rating. There are about 5 or 6 of them from 2010-2020, and half of that number are actually pretty bad comic adaptations, getting their rating from wide fan base. Big Hollywood is repeating itself, stakes are too high to embrace creativity, investors want a rock-solid path to success. Netflix is making uninteresting synthetic data-driven content. HBO made a stake on soft porn. Author/independent movies are on decline too. Look at this year Oscar nominees: how much of them you feel you really should to watch?
    - the_dune_13 5y ago
      I disagree. There are quite a few interesting movies out there. From 2019 alone: Uncut gems, Marriage Story, the Irishman, Us, 1917, Jojo Rabbit and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. All of those are good movies depending on the preference. In fact, they are innovative and creative. The main problem with judging now vs past, is the survivorship bias of the good movies, the bad ones are forgotten and lost. Two of those are netflix movies - Irishman and Marriage Story, I don't see them any more synthetic than 1980's RAMBO 2-5? or God Father 2,3 etc. Movies were always based on the popularity, the difference being the better data. > bad comic adaptations, getting their rating from wide fan base The amount of haters and lovers might not offset each other perfectly, yet it should not matter after the hype dwindles. Besides, the top rated comic books adaptations are quite good - Joker?
blub 5y ago
Judging by the race turmoil in the West, being an ethnostate is the only sane thing to do. China's taking care of China and the Chinese, while the West are busy repenting for the crimes that happened hundreds of years ago. And as you've noticed yourself, China's happy to manipulate Hollywood into publishing what they want, no need to create their own.
- dang 5y ago
  Flamewar comments like this will get you banned here. It's not what the site is for. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: we've had to warn you about this multiple times before. That's seriously not cool, and if you keep doing it we will ban you.
  - blub 5y ago
    I see my comment was flagged and I can't help but think that way too many on HN interpret comments on nationality and race in the worst possible light. One can't have any meaningful discussion on HN about several political topics because the corridor of acceptable opinion is restricted to essentially the US and to some extent WE mainstream. Anyway, after ~three strikes in ~11 years I think it's time I took a break on my own initiative because HN and the kind of news and discussions here don't offer anything positive for me any more.
- tim333 5y ago
  There's a certain amount of race turmoil in the US but a lot of ethnically mixed places do ok. I live in London normally and it's very mixed and works ok really. Also in terms of Chinese culture the very racially mixed Singapore does rather better in most respects than China.
beardyw 5y ago
I cancelled Netflix yesterday. Having watched a few things the absolute majority of its largely American content does not interest me at all. If it's any consolation I don't think I've ever watched anything Chinese.
b0rsuk 5y ago
> The possible, but worrying scenario is that Chinese capital owns Western cultural production, implicitly (see: Disney or the NBA) or explicitly. Tencent (PUBG, Fortnite, Path of Exile; Companies: Paradox Interactive, Klei Entertainment, Discord, Reddit, Splash Damage, Epic Games, Activision Blizzard, Ubisoft, Funcom, Riot Games, Grinding Gear Games ; Tencent hosts Call of Duty and League of Legends) The share ranges from 5% to 100%. Also, they're making movies with high production values. Drug War, various historical epics, Crouching Tiger, Shaolin Soccer etc. Bollywood may have more recognized moveis, but China makes better action movies. And I'm saying this as a person who didn't enjoy most of them (except for the Johnnie To movies).
twobitshifter 5y ago
I think China does have large media influence over the rest of the Asian continent today. The epic miniseries produced in China are translated and enjoyed by people throughout SEA. I wouldn’t instantly expect it to show up everywhere in the developing world, but in the SEA it’s definitely there. Despite the love of the miniseries, most people in SEA are not dreaming of being Chinese (which is of course an impossibility.) The advantage of the US may be our comparatively relaxed immigration laws.

BitwiseFool 5y ago

As Americans, I feel like we've gotten accustomed to the idea that soft-power means other nations consume our culture through media. We are used to the world listening to our music, watching our movies, and reading our books. We think that we influence the world through our superior and diverse culture. We want the rest of the world to be more like us. But it seems like the Chinese Government isn't interested in evangelizing the "Chinese Way" around the world. They just want the other nations to enrich the Chinese Economy and fall-in-line during international disputes.

newdude116 5y ago

You know it all man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrQHPbISpHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrQHPbISpHg (Yes, you don't speak Chinese but their call her chocolate girl)

BigW1lly 5y ago

I'd say Korea is actually winning the cultural war. K-pop has taken the world by storm. Hollywood is in decline, if you'll notice, good movies are harder to come by nowadays.

cameldrv 5y ago
Yes but a lot of the energy and talent that 20 years ago would have been making movies is now making TV series. Today is the golden age of TV like the 70s was for film.
Dracophoenix 5y ago
Japan is also winning big in this domain as well. Anime has held strong and City Pop has gained a cult following these days.
the_dune_13 5y ago
> Hollywood is in decline, if you'll notice, good movies are harder to come by nowadays. Are you sure about that? It sounds like a deeply biased statement.
- SergeAx 5y ago
  Check out IMDb top movies by rating. There are about 5 or 6 of them from 2010-2020, and half of that number are actually pretty bad comic adaptations, getting their rating from wide fan base. Big Hollywood is repeating itself, stakes are too high to embrace creativity, investors want a rock-solid path to success. Netflix is making uninteresting synthetic data-driven content. HBO made a stake on soft porn. Author/independent movies are on decline too. Look at this year Oscar nominees: how much of them you feel you really should to watch?
  - the_dune_13 5y ago
    I disagree. There are quite a few interesting movies out there. From 2019 alone: Uncut gems, Marriage Story, the Irishman, Us, 1917, Jojo Rabbit and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. All of those are good movies depending on the preference. In fact, they are innovative and creative. The main problem with judging now vs past, is the survivorship bias of the good movies, the bad ones are forgotten and lost. Two of those are netflix movies - Irishman and Marriage Story, I don't see them any more synthetic than 1980's RAMBO 2-5? or God Father 2,3 etc. Movies were always based on the popularity, the difference being the better data. > bad comic adaptations, getting their rating from wide fan base The amount of haters and lovers might not offset each other perfectly, yet it should not matter after the hype dwindles. Besides, the top rated comic books adaptations are quite good - Joker?

blub 5y ago

Judging by the race turmoil in the West, being an ethnostate is the only sane thing to do. China's taking care of China and the Chinese, while the West are busy repenting for the crimes that happened hundreds of years ago. And as you've noticed yourself, China's happy to manipulate Hollywood into publishing what they want, no need to create their own.

dang 5y ago
Flamewar comments like this will get you banned here. It's not what the site is for. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: we've had to warn you about this multiple times before. That's seriously not cool, and if you keep doing it we will ban you.
- blub 5y ago
  I see my comment was flagged and I can't help but think that way too many on HN interpret comments on nationality and race in the worst possible light. One can't have any meaningful discussion on HN about several political topics because the corridor of acceptable opinion is restricted to essentially the US and to some extent WE mainstream. Anyway, after ~three strikes in ~11 years I think it's time I took a break on my own initiative because HN and the kind of news and discussions here don't offer anything positive for me any more.
tim333 5y ago
There's a certain amount of race turmoil in the US but a lot of ethnically mixed places do ok. I live in London normally and it's very mixed and works ok really. Also in terms of Chinese culture the very racially mixed Singapore does rather better in most respects than China.

beardyw 5y ago

I cancelled Netflix yesterday. Having watched a few things the absolute majority of its largely American content does not interest me at all. If it's any consolation I don't think I've ever watched anything Chinese.

b0rsuk 5y ago

> The possible, but worrying scenario is that Chinese capital owns Western cultural production, implicitly (see: Disney or the NBA) or explicitly. Tencent (PUBG, Fortnite, Path of Exile; Companies: Paradox Interactive, Klei Entertainment, Discord, Reddit, Splash Damage, Epic Games, Activision Blizzard, Ubisoft, Funcom, Riot Games, Grinding Gear Games ; Tencent hosts Call of Duty and League of Legends) The share ranges from 5% to 100%. Also, they're making movies with high production values. Drug War, various historical epics, Crouching Tiger, Shaolin Soccer etc. Bollywood may have more recognized moveis, but China makes better action movies. And I'm saying this as a person who didn't enjoy most of them (except for the Johnnie To movies).

twobitshifter 5y ago

I think China does have large media influence over the rest of the Asian continent today. The epic miniseries produced in China are translated and enjoyed by people throughout SEA. I wouldn’t instantly expect it to show up everywhere in the developing world, but in the SEA it’s definitely there. Despite the love of the miniseries, most people in SEA are not dreaming of being Chinese (which is of course an impossibility.) The advantage of the US may be our comparatively relaxed immigration laws.