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Gatekeeping comments like that are not helpful. There are many beginner-friendly tutorials for 8-bit AVR chips, and many projects don't need the extra features
by hugs 6y ago
Gatekeeping comments like that are not helpful. There are many beginner-friendly tutorials for 8-bit AVR chips, and many projects don't need the extra features of a 32-bit ARM chip.
- pantalaimon 6y agoAre those really tutorials for AVR chips or tutorials for the Arduino ecosystem? Arduino is not limited to AVR, there is no need to put up with the limitations of those aging chips, unless you are accessing hardware registers directly you can probably run the same software on a STM32 or SAM D board.
- hugs 6y agoI was specifically thinking of the ATtiny85 when I made my comment. A beginner's first electronics project is often blinking an LED on and off. When I'm teaching a room full of kids electronics for the first time, the simplicity and low-cost nature of the ATtiny chips are hard to beat. I get it, ARM chips are great for real projects, but there is still a place for 8-bit AVR.
- regularfry 6y agoI've literally just received a delivery of through-hole ATTiny85s and a programmer, so I can dead-bug an I2C interface onto an analogue sensor. I have no idea where I'd start looking for an ARM in anything like the same form factor.
- nereye 6y agoThere are through-hole ARM ICs, e.g. see https://hackaday.com/2013/05/29/programming-a-through-hole-arm-microcontroller/ https://hackaday.com/2013/05/29/programming-a-through-hole-a.... For example: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/nxp-usa-inc/LPC810M021FN8129/12102361 https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/nxp-usa-inc/LPC81....
- krallja 6y agoThere were through-hole ARM ICs, but they are no longer in production.
- regularfry 6y agoI've just had a quick look, and there are some very small BGA-packaged STM32 chips about. With a competent PCB fab you might be able to knock together a board with 8 jumper pins that wouldn't be much bigger in total than a SOIP attiny, but that's another job plus whatever peripheral components need to be added. Might be a fun design job, though. https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32G030J6M6?qs=uwxL4vQweFMe%2Fiu4dY6izA%3D%3D https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/ST... looks like it might be a lot of fun, but it's got a 6 month lead time on it.
- HeyLaughingBoy 6y agoIt's a good point and I don't consider it gatekeeping. The newer devices really do cost less and if you're staying within the Arduino ecosystem, the tools will work with (usually) no code changes, especially if you're doing beginner stuff, so the faster chips are just as easy to use, while the increased RAM/Flash resources mean you can use languages like Python or, gasp, templating. Forget the "extra features." They're just along for the ride. Silicon is cheap!
- Karliss 6y ago8bit controllers like AVR a lot more accessible if you are going with no arduino approach of just datasheet+compiler. All the peripherals are described in single reasonable size datasheet and you can don't need much hardware initialization code except for features that you directly use. Bringing up an ARM chip from scratch without using a generator like STM CubeMX or a frameworks like Arduino with existing hardware support packages will take a lot more effort.
- HeyLaughingBoy 6y agoYes, if you're doing that. Which is why I said "if you're staying within the Arduino ecosystem" I've been programming embedded systems for-fricking-ever and even I stay with Arduino libraries if I can get away with it for non-critical projects simply because it's easier.