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Do you have any data to support anything you said here? The middle class has been getting decimated the past 20 years. They used to live comfortably on a single

by jb775 5y ago

Do you have any data to support anything you said here? The middle class has been getting decimated the past 20 years. They used to live comfortably on a single income, now both parents slave the week away and have even less purchasing power. Also, housing prices aren't "out of control" at all. Inflation is reducing the value of the dollar, and it's showing up in the real estate market. Inflation hurts anyone on a salary, not people with income dependent on assets that appreciate alongside inflation. Also, the they in the "waste they produce" is referencing the richest business owners. They are reaping the benefits of the production processes and leaving everyone else with the pollution. The root cause of all these things is the upper class either feeding on or taking advantage of the middle and lower classes. "Inequality" is just a term used as a window to look between the different classes.

cloverich 5y ago
> and have even less purchasing power How does that account for items we have today which were unavailable 20-30 years ago? E.g. even if I were rich in 1990 I wouldn't have a super computer in my pocket with access to infinite knowledge and entertainment. > Inflation hurts anyone on a salary And anyone with savings. > They are reaping the benefits of the production processes and leaving everyone else with the pollution. A CO2 tax would be more burdensome the further you go down the chain. Everyone is reaping the benefits there. Sure, _some_ mega corp executives get extra benefits, but in general waste producing fossil fuel burning ecosystem destroying processes have been the literal thing that has lifted people out of poverty. (To be clear I am very pro environmental regulation, climate change, etc, but am skeptical the impacts won't be felt the greatest at the bottom of the income brackets)
- jfengel 5y ago
  > And anyone with savings. Anyone with savings that they keep in a mattress, or keep long-term in a checking account designed for short-term savings.
jay_kyburz 5y ago
My data is anecdotal. I live in the suburbs surrounded my middle class people like myself. Food / clothes / tools / entertainment are plentiful. People are living a good life. Here in Australia, house prices are rising significantly faster than inflation. My personal suspicion is that its because everything else is so cheap, the middle class can afford borrow and spend more of their dual income salaries on their houses. Yes sure, the "they" is business owners, but its expected that the business owners should then pass that cost down to the consumers that buy the products. Yes, the business owners are reaping the rewards, but so are all of us consumers. (It's future generations that will pay the price.) The root cause may be that we allow some people to have too much power in our society. But the amount of money they have in their bank accounts is irrelevant. We live in a democracy so we can make rules that balances power, but we choose to allow people with a lot of money to have a lot of power. I think its much more interesting to look at inequality of power than inequality of money.
- jb775 5y ago
  Food/clothes/tools became cheaper over the past 100 years as economies of scale were built, but they were much cheaper 10-15 years ago when you compare price to purchasing power of income. This is a somewhat recent trend we're talking about (last ~25 years or so). I think inflation is rising a lot faster than you think. They don't admit there's actual inflation until it's already been here for a while. > We live in a democracy so we can make rules that balances power Not true and never has been. This is a pipe dream for suckers. The golden rule is that those with the gold make the rules. > inequality of power vs inequality of money Money buys power (lobbyists, legal bribes, media access, etc), so these are basically the same thing if someone with lots of money is interested in spending it on obtaining power.

by jb775 5y ago

cloverich 5y ago

> and have even less purchasing power How does that account for items we have today which were unavailable 20-30 years ago? E.g. even if I were rich in 1990 I wouldn't have a super computer in my pocket with access to infinite knowledge and entertainment. > Inflation hurts anyone on a salary And anyone with savings. > They are reaping the benefits of the production processes and leaving everyone else with the pollution. A CO2 tax would be more burdensome the further you go down the chain. Everyone is reaping the benefits there. Sure, _some_ mega corp executives get extra benefits, but in general waste producing fossil fuel burning ecosystem destroying processes have been the literal thing that has lifted people out of poverty. (To be clear I am very pro environmental regulation, climate change, etc, but am skeptical the impacts won't be felt the greatest at the bottom of the income brackets)

jfengel 5y ago
> And anyone with savings. Anyone with savings that they keep in a mattress, or keep long-term in a checking account designed for short-term savings.

jay_kyburz 5y ago

My data is anecdotal. I live in the suburbs surrounded my middle class people like myself. Food / clothes / tools / entertainment are plentiful. People are living a good life. Here in Australia, house prices are rising significantly faster than inflation. My personal suspicion is that its because everything else is so cheap, the middle class can afford borrow and spend more of their dual income salaries on their houses. Yes sure, the "they" is business owners, but its expected that the business owners should then pass that cost down to the consumers that buy the products. Yes, the business owners are reaping the rewards, but so are all of us consumers. (It's future generations that will pay the price.) The root cause may be that we allow some people to have too much power in our society. But the amount of money they have in their bank accounts is irrelevant. We live in a democracy so we can make rules that balances power, but we choose to allow people with a lot of money to have a lot of power. I think its much more interesting to look at inequality of power than inequality of money.

jb775 5y ago
Food/clothes/tools became cheaper over the past 100 years as economies of scale were built, but they were much cheaper 10-15 years ago when you compare price to purchasing power of income. This is a somewhat recent trend we're talking about (last ~25 years or so). I think inflation is rising a lot faster than you think. They don't admit there's actual inflation until it's already been here for a while. > We live in a democracy so we can make rules that balances power Not true and never has been. This is a pipe dream for suckers. The golden rule is that those with the gold make the rules. > inequality of power vs inequality of money Money buys power (lobbyists, legal bribes, media access, etc), so these are basically the same thing if someone with lots of money is interested in spending it on obtaining power.