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Soft skills aren't a waste of time... and being good at interviews is a soft skill that lead to job offers - so far from useless if you can pull a six figure jo

Soft skills aren't a waste of time... and being good at interviews is a soft skill that lead to job offers - so far from useless if you can pull a six figure job. This seems like a "why go to college" type of response where there is some truth to the fact that so much of college is a waste (I've never used statistics or economics in jobs)... yet it's more than just college or CS questions.

falcolas 6y ago
Spending time working on "how to reverse a binary tree" and "how to find the shortest path in a multi-dimensional array" are not soft skills. It's learning how to handle highly specific theoretical CS questions.
- wernercd 6y ago
  and those skills lead to job offers. As proven by the thousands of CS devs that "jump through the useless hoops" and end up with jobs. I agree that a lot of story around interviewing is broken and that many of the questions don't relate to day to day jobs... like creating a binary tree or "how do you move a mountain" (IE: https://www.amazon.com/How-Would-Move-Mount-Fuji/dp/0316778494 https://www.amazon.com/How-Would-Move-Mount-Fuji/dp/03167784...) - but they do show that you know CS basics, know how to learn them or have basic problem solving skills. As much as people bemoan CS interviews... currently? They are a necessary evil to certain segments of the job market. Can you get jobs without them? Sure... just like you can get jobs without degrees - but your resume will get round-filed for a large number of jobs without a degree and you'll not make it past initial filters without knowing "basic" CS trivia like binary trees. Whether you're okay with a limited job pool or not is on you... I don't have a 4 year... but I have a 2 year with many years of experience and I'm okay with some of the limits until I eventually get a BA. I still make six figures and know I can find a new job if it comes to it - as I've done repeatedly with limits. I've never balanced a binary tree for a job interview but I have "failed" online tests because I wasn't "fast enough" on code tests. I'm still employable and successful.
  - stale2002 6y ago
    > but they do show that you know CS basics Ok. So not soft skills then. Instead, it is very specific skills. It is not soft skills.
    - wernercd 6y ago
      Slight review shows I may be off on my terminology... Interviewing isn't a soft skill per-se but it is still an important one for those who wish to interview as it stands currently. https://www.wikijob.co.uk/content/interview-advice/competencies/soft-skills https://www.wikijob.co.uk/content/interview-advice/competenc... > Soft skills are the more intangible and non-technical abilities that are sought from candidates. For example: * Communication * Teamwork * Problem-solving * Leadership * Responsibility So "interviewing" isn't a soft skill as I've always though it to be but I didn't call CS basics a soft skill - I called interviewing one. I was thinking more "a skill not work related per-se" - ie interviewing - while the expected definition is more... personality and interpersonal skills. I'd consider interviewing "personality and interpersonal" but I can adjust my terminology. Interviewing is an important skill for most people and interviewing in the programming realm, unfortunately, relies on CS basics. Generally you don't get one without the other.
- creata 6y ago
  "Theoretical computer science" has a fairly well-accepted meaning, and these basic puzzles don't fall under that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoretical_computer_science https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoretical_computer_science

falcolas 6y ago

Spending time working on "how to reverse a binary tree" and "how to find the shortest path in a multi-dimensional array" are not soft skills. It's learning how to handle highly specific theoretical CS questions.

wernercd 6y ago
and those skills lead to job offers. As proven by the thousands of CS devs that "jump through the useless hoops" and end up with jobs. I agree that a lot of story around interviewing is broken and that many of the questions don't relate to day to day jobs... like creating a binary tree or "how do you move a mountain" (IE: https://www.amazon.com/How-Would-Move-Mount-Fuji/dp/0316778494 https://www.amazon.com/How-Would-Move-Mount-Fuji/dp/03167784...) - but they do show that you know CS basics, know how to learn them or have basic problem solving skills. As much as people bemoan CS interviews... currently? They are a necessary evil to certain segments of the job market. Can you get jobs without them? Sure... just like you can get jobs without degrees - but your resume will get round-filed for a large number of jobs without a degree and you'll not make it past initial filters without knowing "basic" CS trivia like binary trees. Whether you're okay with a limited job pool or not is on you... I don't have a 4 year... but I have a 2 year with many years of experience and I'm okay with some of the limits until I eventually get a BA. I still make six figures and know I can find a new job if it comes to it - as I've done repeatedly with limits. I've never balanced a binary tree for a job interview but I have "failed" online tests because I wasn't "fast enough" on code tests. I'm still employable and successful.
- stale2002 6y ago
  > but they do show that you know CS basics Ok. So not soft skills then. Instead, it is very specific skills. It is not soft skills.
  - wernercd 6y ago
    Slight review shows I may be off on my terminology... Interviewing isn't a soft skill per-se but it is still an important one for those who wish to interview as it stands currently. https://www.wikijob.co.uk/content/interview-advice/competencies/soft-skills https://www.wikijob.co.uk/content/interview-advice/competenc... > Soft skills are the more intangible and non-technical abilities that are sought from candidates. For example: * Communication * Teamwork * Problem-solving * Leadership * Responsibility So "interviewing" isn't a soft skill as I've always though it to be but I didn't call CS basics a soft skill - I called interviewing one. I was thinking more "a skill not work related per-se" - ie interviewing - while the expected definition is more... personality and interpersonal skills. I'd consider interviewing "personality and interpersonal" but I can adjust my terminology. Interviewing is an important skill for most people and interviewing in the programming realm, unfortunately, relies on CS basics. Generally you don't get one without the other.
creata 6y ago
"Theoretical computer science" has a fairly well-accepted meaning, and these basic puzzles don't fall under that. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoretical_computer_science https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoretical_computer_science