5 ms·

This isn't 2010. Unless, you're some legendary-tier coder (and I have my doubts these actually exist or are useful in a corporate environment), the company will

This isn't 2010. Unless, you're some legendary-tier coder (and I have my doubts these actually exist or are useful in a corporate environment), the company will most likely call your bluff. There are loads of coders willing to take the job.

umvi 5y ago
Don't make it a bluff then. Have an offer in hand before bargaining. If the company values you (and not every company treats its programmers like cogs) they will work with you. Otherwise if they refuse you still have a job.
- chimeracoder 5y ago
  > Don't make it a bluff then. Have an offer in hand before bargaining. If the company values you (and not every company treats its programmers like cogs) they will work with you. Otherwise if they refuse you still have a job. So what you are describing is a situation in which there is zero long-term pressure for the company to improve or change their practices, because there is a never-ending source of people to replace the ones leaving, and as long as they're fine with the churn (spoiler: they are), they'll just chalk it up to the system working as intended.
- wdb 5y ago
  I am not a fan of people that only apply for a job so they can use it as a bargaining chip at their work. Such a waste of energy for me
insert_coin 5y ago
It's a bluff only if you don't mean it. If you are willing to fight for what's fair according to yourself, then it is one of the expected results.
whatbluff 5y ago
What are you talking about? I'm a totally average programmer, hell, maybe below average for my age and experience level, and I literally walked on a job that wanted to make me do uncompensated on-call at the end of 2019 for one that compensates me to be on call. It doesn't have to be a bluff, programmers are still in high demand. And I'm not even in Silicon Valley, and I have no degree. C'mon!
aantix 5y ago
You don't have to be "legendary" to have that kind of leverage. If the software has any level of complexity, an org does not want to incur the cost of training a newly hired engineer and waiting 3-6 months while they get up to speed.
benmller313 5y ago
Are you sure the job market is softer now than in 2010?

umvi 5y ago

Don't make it a bluff then. Have an offer in hand before bargaining. If the company values you (and not every company treats its programmers like cogs) they will work with you. Otherwise if they refuse you still have a job.

chimeracoder 5y ago
> Don't make it a bluff then. Have an offer in hand before bargaining. If the company values you (and not every company treats its programmers like cogs) they will work with you. Otherwise if they refuse you still have a job. So what you are describing is a situation in which there is zero long-term pressure for the company to improve or change their practices, because there is a never-ending source of people to replace the ones leaving, and as long as they're fine with the churn (spoiler: they are), they'll just chalk it up to the system working as intended.
wdb 5y ago
I am not a fan of people that only apply for a job so they can use it as a bargaining chip at their work. Such a waste of energy for me

insert_coin 5y ago

It's a bluff only if you don't mean it. If you are willing to fight for what's fair according to yourself, then it is one of the expected results.

whatbluff 5y ago

What are you talking about? I'm a totally average programmer, hell, maybe below average for my age and experience level, and I literally walked on a job that wanted to make me do uncompensated on-call at the end of 2019 for one that compensates me to be on call. It doesn't have to be a bluff, programmers are still in high demand. And I'm not even in Silicon Valley, and I have no degree. C'mon!

aantix 5y ago

You don't have to be "legendary" to have that kind of leverage. If the software has any level of complexity, an org does not want to incur the cost of training a newly hired engineer and waiting 3-6 months while they get up to speed.

benmller313 5y ago

Are you sure the job market is softer now than in 2010?