4 ms·

> but I have no bargaining power as an individual What about "stop putting me on call without compensation or I will leave the company"

by umvi 6y ago

randoramax 6y ago
> What about "stop putting me on call without compensation or I will leave the company" Says the dude without kids and a mortgage who can afford a couple of months without a salary :)
- umvi 6y ago
  Why does that matter? If you don't like your current job, start looking around until you have a new offer in hand. That new offer in hand is now your leverage ("bargaining power") if you really like your current company. Otherwise if they "call your bluff" you still have a job.
  - Spooky23 6y ago
    Living life by ultimatum is pretty lame. End of the day, requiring such a high friction approach to addressing basic issues sets up incentives to take no action.
    - toomuchredbull 6y ago
      Lame living by someone else's ultimatum also. If you had a union you'd have to go on strike for shit you don't necessarily care about and you would have to wait for somebody to age out to get off of pager duty. It's outsourcing responsibility of your life to someone else.
      - 52-6F-62 6y ago
        In the timeless words of Bob Dylan, "gotta serve somebody"
bitmunk 6y ago
Yeah, try that outside a 100 km radius from SV.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  I did it and it worked well. All I really had to do was respond to the LinkedIn recruiter spam and take some vacation days for interviews.
optimalsolver 6y ago
This isn't 2010. Unless, you're some legendary-tier coder (and I have my doubts these actually exist or are useful in a corporate environment), the company will most likely call your bluff. There are loads of coders willing to take the job.
- umvi 6y ago
  Don't make it a bluff then. Have an offer in hand before bargaining. If the company values you (and not every company treats its programmers like cogs) they will work with you. Otherwise if they refuse you still have a job.
  - chimeracoder 6y ago
    > Don't make it a bluff then. Have an offer in hand before bargaining. If the company values you (and not every company treats its programmers like cogs) they will work with you. Otherwise if they refuse you still have a job. So what you are describing is a situation in which there is zero long-term pressure for the company to improve or change their practices, because there is a never-ending source of people to replace the ones leaving, and as long as they're fine with the churn (spoiler: they are), they'll just chalk it up to the system working as intended.
  - wdb 6y ago
    I am not a fan of people that only apply for a job so they can use it as a bargaining chip at their work. Such a waste of energy for me
- insert_coin 6y ago
  It's a bluff only if you don't mean it. If you are willing to fight for what's fair according to yourself, then it is one of the expected results.
- whatbluff 6y ago
  What are you talking about? I'm a totally average programmer, hell, maybe below average for my age and experience level, and I literally walked on a job that wanted to make me do uncompensated on-call at the end of 2019 for one that compensates me to be on call. It doesn't have to be a bluff, programmers are still in high demand. And I'm not even in Silicon Valley, and I have no degree. C'mon!

> but I have no bargaining power as an individual What about "stop putting me on call without compensation or I will leave the company"

by umvi 6y ago

> but I have no bargaining power as an individual What about "stop putting me on call without compensation or I will leave the company"

randoramax 6y ago

> What about "stop putting me on call without compensation or I will leave the company" Says the dude without kids and a mortgage who can afford a couple of months without a salary :)

umvi 6y ago
Why does that matter? If you don't like your current job, start looking around until you have a new offer in hand. That new offer in hand is now your leverage ("bargaining power") if you really like your current company. Otherwise if they "call your bluff" you still have a job.
- Spooky23 6y ago
  Living life by ultimatum is pretty lame. End of the day, requiring such a high friction approach to addressing basic issues sets up incentives to take no action.
  - toomuchredbull 6y ago
    Lame living by someone else's ultimatum also. If you had a union you'd have to go on strike for shit you don't necessarily care about and you would have to wait for somebody to age out to get off of pager duty. It's outsourcing responsibility of your life to someone else.
    - 52-6F-62 6y ago
      In the timeless words of Bob Dylan, "gotta serve somebody"

bitmunk 6y ago

Yeah, try that outside a 100 km radius from SV.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
I did it and it worked well. All I really had to do was respond to the LinkedIn recruiter spam and take some vacation days for interviews.

optimalsolver 6y ago

This isn't 2010. Unless, you're some legendary-tier coder (and I have my doubts these actually exist or are useful in a corporate environment), the company will most likely call your bluff. There are loads of coders willing to take the job.

umvi 6y ago
Don't make it a bluff then. Have an offer in hand before bargaining. If the company values you (and not every company treats its programmers like cogs) they will work with you. Otherwise if they refuse you still have a job.
- chimeracoder 6y ago
  > Don't make it a bluff then. Have an offer in hand before bargaining. If the company values you (and not every company treats its programmers like cogs) they will work with you. Otherwise if they refuse you still have a job. So what you are describing is a situation in which there is zero long-term pressure for the company to improve or change their practices, because there is a never-ending source of people to replace the ones leaving, and as long as they're fine with the churn (spoiler: they are), they'll just chalk it up to the system working as intended.
- wdb 6y ago
  I am not a fan of people that only apply for a job so they can use it as a bargaining chip at their work. Such a waste of energy for me
insert_coin 6y ago
It's a bluff only if you don't mean it. If you are willing to fight for what's fair according to yourself, then it is one of the expected results.
whatbluff 6y ago
What are you talking about? I'm a totally average programmer, hell, maybe below average for my age and experience level, and I literally walked on a job that wanted to make me do uncompensated on-call at the end of 2019 for one that compensates me to be on call. It doesn't have to be a bluff, programmers are still in high demand. And I'm not even in Silicon Valley, and I have no degree. C'mon!