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For those wondering, this is 100% an Apple-directed decision. The strings for a canary version of the client, at one point, blamed App Store rules directly: htt

For those wondering, this is 100% an Apple-directed decision. The strings for a canary version of the client, at one point, blamed App Store rules directly: https://github.com/Discord-Datamining/Discord-Datamining/commit/0a488f466b837465b8eeabd8ef39a26bdc2e8b75#commitcomment-48868174 https://github.com/Discord-Datamining/Discord-Datamining/com... I can only assume that it is also against Apple's rules to blame Apple for their draconian policies, and therefore they had to amend the text.

barake 5y ago
You are correct, in my experience. Stating that Apple is mandating a change is grounds for rejection and maybe even a phone call.
- realusername 5y ago
  That's not surprising, there's some clear anti-trust issues on the mobile app market
- flurdy 5y ago
  They need a canary. A clear statement that says Apple did not mandate these changes. If it is missing we all know why...
superkuh 5y ago
Cut the gordian knot. Discord should just release the iOS application themselves and bypass the Apple walled garden. It is time to end corporate feudalism and the first step is installing applications the way they were meant to be installed instead of through one specific corporate gateway.
- gbl08ma 5y ago
  On non-jailbroken iOS devices the only way to install apps is through the App Store or through some convoluted methods which involve having a developer account (which you must pay yearly for), and I believe the % of jailbroken iOS devices is much much lower than the % of people willing to install Android APKs outside of Google Play, anyway. Sure, they _could_ do that for few people who have jailbroken iPhones, but doing that is pretty much like giving up on their iOS app altogether.
  - SSLy 5y ago
    AltStore lets you sign apps with a non-developer iCloud account.
    - easton 5y ago
      That expire after seven days, just like if you signed them with XCode. And you can only install two or three apps at once, and the wireless linking rarely works. Apple just needs to have a version of "fastboot oem unlock" (or, for that matter, "csrutil --disable") where I can sideload applications with a big warning on the lock screen/splash screen that says the device is not secure. Besides, as long as the code is running inside the sandbox, who cares?
      - SSLy 5y ago
        Alright, then I think we agree. And using AltStore is not a luser-sustainable method of delivery, so the point is moot.
- niij 5y ago
  You can't side load apps on iOS like you can on Android.
- Cu3PO42 5y ago
  How do you suggest they do that? Any enterprise certificate they use to sign the .ipa would be revoked within hours, probably minutes. Telling users to sign it themselves (and re-sign it every 7 days) just isn't feasible. The only alternative would be not to have an iOS app, but that would also be a significant blow to their business. I can't, in good conscience, blame them for complying here.
  - aero-glide2 5y ago
    Glad I have android
  - superkuh 5y ago
    They should maintain 2 branches for iOS. The full featured branch that users who have rooted their iPhone can download and install and a Apple-Safe gimped version for the iOS app store.
- idle_zealot 5y ago
  And how would people install this app? Jailbreaking? AltStore with a Mac and developer account? The bar is pretty high for most of Discord’s users.
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  I was under the impression that distributing apps on iOS was not possible outside of the Apple App Store. Have things changed?
- m463 5y ago
  > Discord should just release the iOS application themselves Who knew when we got PC software on floppies, without IBM's permission, it was the good old days? After decades it seems apple and google closed the barn door.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
It is against Apple policies to tell the truth.. How is this not market manipulation? They are purposefully misleading the market on a grand scale. The whole "you are free not to buy from someone else " doesn't work if you are being lied to. I believe that my rights as a consumer are being violated by this practice.
- g_p 5y ago
  It is manipulation - Facebook were not allowed to disclose transparently the 30% Apple tax. There's now enough antitrust cases against Apple that I'm hopeful they're going to lose in a few serious jurisdictions and be forced to change their ways. The risk of this is already in their SEC filings, so they know it might happen. Funny they disclose the whole truth when it's legally required, but don't let others tell the truth when it's inconvenient.
015a 5y ago
At some point, some large app needs to stand up against Apple. Fortnite was a start, but that's a game; it doesn't "hit home" in Silicon Valley culture. I still have hope that Facebook will pull something major in response to the ATT changes. To be clear: I support the goals of ATT, and I think Apple is in the right on it. But I think freedom of distribution on iOS is more important than this, and when choosing between Freedom and Privacy (or as our forefathers would say, Freedom and Safety); I will choose Freedom, every single time. Apple should not be forcing users to choose. There do exist non-resolvable dichotomies when one has to choose, but this is not one of them.
- IgorPartola 5y ago
  Fortnite/Epic did. Didn’t work out for them.
  - TechBro8615 5y ago
    Has that been resolved yet?
    - g_p 5y ago
      Still ongoing, and epic are getting some good documents out through discovery, which should help their case, as well as other overseas antitrust investigations.
- luckylion 5y ago
  > it doesn't "hit home" in Silicon Valley culture. Are people in SV not aware? I was under the impression that they are acutely aware but are being paid gigantic sums of money to put aside any concerns and opinions.
- luxuryballs 5y ago
  Doesn’t Apple have the freedom to build their OS how they prefer? Just like we have the freedom not to use it.

barake 5y ago

You are correct, in my experience. Stating that Apple is mandating a change is grounds for rejection and maybe even a phone call.

realusername 5y ago
That's not surprising, there's some clear anti-trust issues on the mobile app market
flurdy 5y ago
They need a canary. A clear statement that says Apple did not mandate these changes. If it is missing we all know why...

superkuh 5y ago

Cut the gordian knot. Discord should just release the iOS application themselves and bypass the Apple walled garden. It is time to end corporate feudalism and the first step is installing applications the way they were meant to be installed instead of through one specific corporate gateway.

gbl08ma 5y ago
On non-jailbroken iOS devices the only way to install apps is through the App Store or through some convoluted methods which involve having a developer account (which you must pay yearly for), and I believe the % of jailbroken iOS devices is much much lower than the % of people willing to install Android APKs outside of Google Play, anyway. Sure, they _could_ do that for few people who have jailbroken iPhones, but doing that is pretty much like giving up on their iOS app altogether.
- SSLy 5y ago
  AltStore lets you sign apps with a non-developer iCloud account.
  - easton 5y ago
    That expire after seven days, just like if you signed them with XCode. And you can only install two or three apps at once, and the wireless linking rarely works. Apple just needs to have a version of "fastboot oem unlock" (or, for that matter, "csrutil --disable") where I can sideload applications with a big warning on the lock screen/splash screen that says the device is not secure. Besides, as long as the code is running inside the sandbox, who cares?
    - SSLy 5y ago
      Alright, then I think we agree. And using AltStore is not a luser-sustainable method of delivery, so the point is moot.
niij 5y ago
You can't side load apps on iOS like you can on Android.
Cu3PO42 5y ago
How do you suggest they do that? Any enterprise certificate they use to sign the .ipa would be revoked within hours, probably minutes. Telling users to sign it themselves (and re-sign it every 7 days) just isn't feasible. The only alternative would be not to have an iOS app, but that would also be a significant blow to their business. I can't, in good conscience, blame them for complying here.
- aero-glide2 5y ago
  Glad I have android
- superkuh 5y ago
  They should maintain 2 branches for iOS. The full featured branch that users who have rooted their iPhone can download and install and a Apple-Safe gimped version for the iOS app store.
idle_zealot 5y ago
And how would people install this app? Jailbreaking? AltStore with a Mac and developer account? The bar is pretty high for most of Discord’s users.
DocTomoe 5y ago
I was under the impression that distributing apps on iOS was not possible outside of the Apple App Store. Have things changed?
m463 5y ago
> Discord should just release the iOS application themselves Who knew when we got PC software on floppies, without IBM's permission, it was the good old days? After decades it seems apple and google closed the barn door.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

It is against Apple policies to tell the truth.. How is this not market manipulation? They are purposefully misleading the market on a grand scale. The whole "you are free not to buy from someone else " doesn't work if you are being lied to. I believe that my rights as a consumer are being violated by this practice.

g_p 5y ago
It is manipulation - Facebook were not allowed to disclose transparently the 30% Apple tax. There's now enough antitrust cases against Apple that I'm hopeful they're going to lose in a few serious jurisdictions and be forced to change their ways. The risk of this is already in their SEC filings, so they know it might happen. Funny they disclose the whole truth when it's legally required, but don't let others tell the truth when it's inconvenient.

015a 5y ago

At some point, some large app needs to stand up against Apple. Fortnite was a start, but that's a game; it doesn't "hit home" in Silicon Valley culture. I still have hope that Facebook will pull something major in response to the ATT changes. To be clear: I support the goals of ATT, and I think Apple is in the right on it. But I think freedom of distribution on iOS is more important than this, and when choosing between Freedom and Privacy (or as our forefathers would say, Freedom and Safety); I will choose Freedom, every single time. Apple should not be forcing users to choose. There do exist non-resolvable dichotomies when one has to choose, but this is not one of them.

IgorPartola 5y ago
Fortnite/Epic did. Didn’t work out for them.
- TechBro8615 5y ago
  Has that been resolved yet?
  - g_p 5y ago
    Still ongoing, and epic are getting some good documents out through discovery, which should help their case, as well as other overseas antitrust investigations.
luckylion 5y ago
> it doesn't "hit home" in Silicon Valley culture. Are people in SV not aware? I was under the impression that they are acutely aware but are being paid gigantic sums of money to put aside any concerns and opinions.
luxuryballs 5y ago
Doesn’t Apple have the freedom to build their OS how they prefer? Just like we have the freedom not to use it.