9 ms·

When I lived in Edinburgh a couple of Polish guys I knew would, whenever they got drunk, corner you and seriously interrogate you on whether you are “ready to f

by smcl 6y ago

When I lived in Edinburgh a couple of Polish guys I knew would, whenever they got drunk, corner you and seriously interrogate you on whether you are “ready to fight and die for your country” (my answer was always “no” which really frustrated them). I thought it was just them being peculiar, I never thought it could be more widespread.

captainredbeard 6y ago
This makes me love the Polish even more!
- smcl 6y ago
  It was quite entertaining and they were good guys.
kiliantics 6y ago
Polish culture is quite conservative and suffers from a lot of toxic masculinity. I would see this mostly as simply a manifestation of that. It's so weird and sad that "dying for your country" is still viewed as some kind of essential "manliness" by many.
- smcl 6y ago
  It could be. To be honest I think there are many similar demonstrations of the same toxic masculinity in other forms by other Scottish or British guys, so it's maybe just that every country has its own form. Just ours was not so much "I will gladly die for my country"
- valesco 6y ago
  Indeed, but they come from a place where not valuing dying for your country enables millions of civilian deaths and a totalitarian state.
  - smcl 6y ago
    I don't think I was very clear, this was not two guys level-headedly stating their intentions to defend their countrymen from a very real and imminent threat. It was a couple of guys who had a bit too much to drink who would - out of the blue - repeatedly bring this up to out-bro the guys at the table. In the case of a conflict we'll all see what where we stand, but I think drunken, grandiose declarations of loyalty made during peacetime should be taken with a pinch of salt. Hopefully we never need to find out how sincere anyone was.
- seneca 6y ago
  > Polish culture is quite conservative and suffers from a lot of toxic masculinity. I would see this mostly as simply a manifestation of that. It's so weird and sad that "dying for your country" is still viewed as some kind of essential "manliness" by many. The comfort of being able to sit around and complain about "toxic masculinity" is provided by men and women willing to die to protect it.
  - smcl 6y ago
    This is needlessly harsh, but ironically quite a good demonstration of toxic masculinity
btbuildem 6y ago
I think part of it comes from the perception of war (like parent commenter stipulated, different depending where you're from). Americans know war from TV, worst that happens is some of those who signed up for the work don't come home, or a remote naval base gets bombed. The Polish known wars throughout all their history. It's only natural to think the next war is coming, because some war has always been coming.
stereolambda 6y ago
I wouldn't say all Poles are keen for-your-country-diers, but there's a sense that it's foolish to count on any system (political etc.) going on indefinitely. Everywhere you go, people were being rounded up and killed during WW2. Property you may have owned, often evaporated. Or, as there's a growing awareness, grabbed by other people. Such things are possible. Aside from obvious nationalism that plays a role with some folks, I'd say total defiance may be a sound strategy for dealing with sociopathic bad actors (international or otherwise): better than going down a slippery slope to complete submission everywhere. This is the kind of situation that people tend to think of when talking about "dying for the country" in Poland.

by smcl 6y ago

captainredbeard 6y ago

This makes me love the Polish even more!

smcl 6y ago
It was quite entertaining and they were good guys.

kiliantics 6y ago

Polish culture is quite conservative and suffers from a lot of toxic masculinity. I would see this mostly as simply a manifestation of that. It's so weird and sad that "dying for your country" is still viewed as some kind of essential "manliness" by many.

smcl 6y ago
It could be. To be honest I think there are many similar demonstrations of the same toxic masculinity in other forms by other Scottish or British guys, so it's maybe just that every country has its own form. Just ours was not so much "I will gladly die for my country"
valesco 6y ago
Indeed, but they come from a place where not valuing dying for your country enables millions of civilian deaths and a totalitarian state.
- smcl 6y ago
  I don't think I was very clear, this was not two guys level-headedly stating their intentions to defend their countrymen from a very real and imminent threat. It was a couple of guys who had a bit too much to drink who would - out of the blue - repeatedly bring this up to out-bro the guys at the table. In the case of a conflict we'll all see what where we stand, but I think drunken, grandiose declarations of loyalty made during peacetime should be taken with a pinch of salt. Hopefully we never need to find out how sincere anyone was.
seneca 6y ago
> Polish culture is quite conservative and suffers from a lot of toxic masculinity. I would see this mostly as simply a manifestation of that. It's so weird and sad that "dying for your country" is still viewed as some kind of essential "manliness" by many. The comfort of being able to sit around and complain about "toxic masculinity" is provided by men and women willing to die to protect it.
- smcl 6y ago
  This is needlessly harsh, but ironically quite a good demonstration of toxic masculinity

btbuildem 6y ago

I think part of it comes from the perception of war (like parent commenter stipulated, different depending where you're from). Americans know war from TV, worst that happens is some of those who signed up for the work don't come home, or a remote naval base gets bombed. The Polish known wars throughout all their history. It's only natural to think the next war is coming, because some war has always been coming.

stereolambda 6y ago

I wouldn't say all Poles are keen for-your-country-diers, but there's a sense that it's foolish to count on any system (political etc.) going on indefinitely. Everywhere you go, people were being rounded up and killed during WW2. Property you may have owned, often evaporated. Or, as there's a growing awareness, grabbed by other people. Such things are possible. Aside from obvious nationalism that plays a role with some folks, I'd say total defiance may be a sound strategy for dealing with sociopathic bad actors (international or otherwise): better than going down a slippery slope to complete submission everywhere. This is the kind of situation that people tend to think of when talking about "dying for the country" in Poland.