4 ms·

The End of Hygiene Theater

19 points by samizdis 6y ago

willio58 6y ago
I wonder if we’ve caused any significant increase in the strength of viruses and microbes just by absolutely obliterating the surfaces around us for the past year. This was the whole concept behind not over-using antibiotics right?
- gotoeleven 6y ago
  Quiet no thinking allowed. Thinking kills grandma.
- MengerSponge 6y ago
  You know how you can develop a tolerance to poison but not to lava? Bleach/soap are like lava, triclosan and other antibiotics are like poison.
  - hackflip 6y ago
    The only problem with this metaphor is that tolerance to poison/lava is an individual tolerance whereas the parent comment refers to a species' tolerance over N generations.
    - taylodl 6y ago
      A species isn't going to develop a tolerance to lava over N generations. Bleach/soap are like lava, there's no developing a tolerance to it. Soap has been working for thousands of years and will continue working for thousands of years to come.
      - MengerSponge 6y ago
        There are extremophiles, I guess, but once you've adapted to living in that environment, you aren't adapted for normal existence any more!
kjakm 6y ago
I wouldn't describe it as theatre. It's more an abundance of caution while we deal with something new and dangerous. Thats totally sensible. There's no real benefit in jumping the gun and getting it wrong, particularly when washing your hands and wiping down surfaces is a minor inconvenience.
- ninju 6y ago
  The "theatre" element this misguided focus on the surface cleaning which does not impact/reduce COVID-19 transmissions. That's the theatre he (and the scientists) are trying to expose and eliminate for the last 6 months
  - taylodl 6y ago
    But it impacts/reduces the transmission of several other viruses. The number of people getting flu was substantially reduced this year and anecdotally the number of people getting colds and having "tummy troubles" have been dramatically reduced.
- dzhiurgis 6y ago
  It probably helped to save few lives (from not getting different infections).
underseacables 6y ago
I think it goes beyond theater. This pandemic has made everyone an expert, and once an opinion is formed, there’s a strong obtuseness to changing it. Very few are willing to critically reassess what they know and their conclusions, so what it looks more like to me is a steadfast refusal by the scientific community to stick their necks out and possibly be wrong.
- mikestew 6y ago
  The pandemic made the author an “expert”. The whole article amounts to “see, I was right all along!”, says the writer of articles on “economics, technology, and the media” (and not anything related to medicine) who read one article last year that supported his view. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. The author, turns out, isn’t wrong. But they are arguably right for the wrong reasons.
merricksb 6y ago
Same topic discussed here a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26752497 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26752497
castillar76 6y ago
I definitely hear his argument about opportunity costs, and in terms of dollars and time (particularly human effort), I agree we should be focusing on the most important efforts to combat COVID. It's the most critical threat right now, so it's more important to spend time and money on ventilation solutions than more bleach. On the other hand, some of this is disinfection that should have been happening already and will hopefully cut down on the spread of other diseases. Just as a practical example, my wife's school has not had a single outbreak of norovirus in over a year thanks to obsessive surface-cleaning and hand-washing, and that stuff spreads like wildfire. It's not (usually) a fatal disease, but it does result in hours of lost time for everyone involved annually. Food poisoning cases, hepatitis transmission, and things like RSV are all hampered by better surface sanitation, so it's not just a tummy-bug problem. In the places where we can develop better automated sanitation solutions, that's a good side benefit—especially if we can turn around and spread those more universally.
- dzhiurgis 6y ago
  Yeah I hope some of this show continues and there's more of it. Most already know in most SE Asia countries the etiquette is to put on a mask whenever you're sick... We need more of this education. We need etiquette like in Japan - every restaurant serves a wipe (not disinfectant tho) to clean your hands before eating.

19 points by samizdis 6y ago

I wonder if we’ve caused any significant increase in the strength of viruses and microbes just by absolutely obliterating the surfaces around us for the past year. This was the whole concept behind not over-using antibiotics right?

gotoeleven 6y ago
Quiet no thinking allowed. Thinking kills grandma.
MengerSponge 6y ago
You know how you can develop a tolerance to poison but not to lava? Bleach/soap are like lava, triclosan and other antibiotics are like poison.
- hackflip 6y ago
  The only problem with this metaphor is that tolerance to poison/lava is an individual tolerance whereas the parent comment refers to a species' tolerance over N generations.
  - taylodl 6y ago
    A species isn't going to develop a tolerance to lava over N generations. Bleach/soap are like lava, there's no developing a tolerance to it. Soap has been working for thousands of years and will continue working for thousands of years to come.
    - MengerSponge 6y ago
      There are extremophiles, I guess, but once you've adapted to living in that environment, you aren't adapted for normal existence any more!

kjakm 6y ago

I wouldn't describe it as theatre. It's more an abundance of caution while we deal with something new and dangerous. Thats totally sensible. There's no real benefit in jumping the gun and getting it wrong, particularly when washing your hands and wiping down surfaces is a minor inconvenience.

ninju 6y ago
The "theatre" element this misguided focus on the surface cleaning which does not impact/reduce COVID-19 transmissions. That's the theatre he (and the scientists) are trying to expose and eliminate for the last 6 months
- taylodl 6y ago
  But it impacts/reduces the transmission of several other viruses. The number of people getting flu was substantially reduced this year and anecdotally the number of people getting colds and having "tummy troubles" have been dramatically reduced.
dzhiurgis 6y ago
It probably helped to save few lives (from not getting different infections).

underseacables 6y ago

I think it goes beyond theater. This pandemic has made everyone an expert, and once an opinion is formed, there’s a strong obtuseness to changing it. Very few are willing to critically reassess what they know and their conclusions, so what it looks more like to me is a steadfast refusal by the scientific community to stick their necks out and possibly be wrong.

mikestew 6y ago
The pandemic made the author an “expert”. The whole article amounts to “see, I was right all along!”, says the writer of articles on “economics, technology, and the media” (and not anything related to medicine) who read one article last year that supported his view. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. The author, turns out, isn’t wrong. But they are arguably right for the wrong reasons.

merricksb 6y ago

Same topic discussed here a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26752497 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26752497

castillar76 6y ago

I definitely hear his argument about opportunity costs, and in terms of dollars and time (particularly human effort), I agree we should be focusing on the most important efforts to combat COVID. It's the most critical threat right now, so it's more important to spend time and money on ventilation solutions than more bleach. On the other hand, some of this is disinfection that should have been happening already and will hopefully cut down on the spread of other diseases. Just as a practical example, my wife's school has not had a single outbreak of norovirus in over a year thanks to obsessive surface-cleaning and hand-washing, and that stuff spreads like wildfire. It's not (usually) a fatal disease, but it does result in hours of lost time for everyone involved annually. Food poisoning cases, hepatitis transmission, and things like RSV are all hampered by better surface sanitation, so it's not just a tummy-bug problem. In the places where we can develop better automated sanitation solutions, that's a good side benefit—especially if we can turn around and spread those more universally.

dzhiurgis 6y ago
Yeah I hope some of this show continues and there's more of it. Most already know in most SE Asia countries the etiquette is to put on a mask whenever you're sick... We need more of this education. We need etiquette like in Japan - every restaurant serves a wipe (not disinfectant tho) to clean your hands before eating.