4 ms·

> Sofi Oksanen is both talented and works so hard in promoting his work. Her.

by Tuna-Fish 6y ago

Hamuko 6y ago
Context: the Finnish language has no gendered pronouns so confusing he/she in English is a common mistake.
- nabla9 6y ago
  Yes. I have to make a mental pause before saying or writing he/she in English. It feels weird to have to think about gender so explicitly when talking and writing. I don't see any evidence that you can promote genders equality meaningfully by changing the language, but I believe there is some truth to the weak form of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis (the theory that the particular language one speaks influences the way one thinks about reality).
  - vidarh 6y ago
    They/them works if you don't want to think about it. A very few people take offence because they assume you're taking a political stance; a few more are unaware singular they has a many centuries of history in English and may correct you. It may seem odd to some in English in contexts where the gender is well established and/or obvious, but they'll get over it.
    - Fern_Blossom 6y ago
      >They/them works if you don't want to think about it. Except that's it's typically used a plural. Referring to one person as multiple is weird, awkward and clunky. Or, you're making a multi-personality joke. I thought we were at the point where poking fun at mental illness was a no-no? That's micro-aggression behavior there on your part. So sure, if you don't think about, it works. Just like saying apple instead would work if you don't think about it. Yes, languages differ. Why anyone still uses accent marks is weird too. Oh well. A few people forcing their own ideals on the masses isn't right either. Two wrongs don't make a right.
      - Hamuko 6y ago
        >Why anyone still uses accent marks is weird too. I consider it a lot weirder that letters are pronounced differently depending on which word they are used in.
        Fern_Blossom 6y ago
        Yet the world keeps spinning just fine since it was adopted as the main language of the world. French has its own insanities and it was the lingua franca beforehand. Looks more like the more weird a language is, the more likely it will be internationally adopted. Every language has its quirks. The mere concept that a handful of people should have the dictative right to alter any of them in their own image, with force adoption by all, is far more insane than the quirks themselves. If you learn the history of the standardization of spelling, most of the fuckups we groan about to this day you can find roots in some authoritative asshole going, "You know, English needs to be a lot more like XYZ language." You see this is many words where they try to formalize English spelling using Greek and Latin spelling principles or word origins. Even if the English word was never derived from Greek or Latin, but it made it look better. Off top of my head when I read about this long ago, the word island. It's like isla or isula for Latin that relates to the concept of an island. So someone thought that English speakers saying, "iland", should add an s in there. The whole English spelling issue is a far more deep rooted and complex problem than your hand-wavy comment gives it credit for. In truth, folks with your attitude are what led us to the current mess because, "they knew better than all those low lives".
      - vidarh 6y ago
        As I pointed out, singular they/them has been well established in English for centuries (it dates to the 1300s) Trying to cater for people who get worked up over singular they/them is not worth the effort.
        jfk13 6y ago
        And how do you feel about the use of "he" as a generic pronoun in reference to an individual of undetermined gender? That has also been well established in English for centuries.

> Sofi Oksanen is both talented and works so hard in promoting his work. Her.

Hamuko 6y ago

Context: the Finnish language has no gendered pronouns so confusing he/she in English is a common mistake.

nabla9 6y ago
Yes. I have to make a mental pause before saying or writing he/she in English. It feels weird to have to think about gender so explicitly when talking and writing. I don't see any evidence that you can promote genders equality meaningfully by changing the language, but I believe there is some truth to the weak form of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis (the theory that the particular language one speaks influences the way one thinks about reality).
- vidarh 6y ago
  They/them works if you don't want to think about it. A very few people take offence because they assume you're taking a political stance; a few more are unaware singular they has a many centuries of history in English and may correct you. It may seem odd to some in English in contexts where the gender is well established and/or obvious, but they'll get over it.
  - Fern_Blossom 6y ago
    >They/them works if you don't want to think about it. Except that's it's typically used a plural. Referring to one person as multiple is weird, awkward and clunky. Or, you're making a multi-personality joke. I thought we were at the point where poking fun at mental illness was a no-no? That's micro-aggression behavior there on your part. So sure, if you don't think about, it works. Just like saying apple instead would work if you don't think about it. Yes, languages differ. Why anyone still uses accent marks is weird too. Oh well. A few people forcing their own ideals on the masses isn't right either. Two wrongs don't make a right.
    - Hamuko 6y ago
      >Why anyone still uses accent marks is weird too. I consider it a lot weirder that letters are pronounced differently depending on which word they are used in.
      - Fern_Blossom 6y ago
        Yet the world keeps spinning just fine since it was adopted as the main language of the world. French has its own insanities and it was the lingua franca beforehand. Looks more like the more weird a language is, the more likely it will be internationally adopted. Every language has its quirks. The mere concept that a handful of people should have the dictative right to alter any of them in their own image, with force adoption by all, is far more insane than the quirks themselves. If you learn the history of the standardization of spelling, most of the fuckups we groan about to this day you can find roots in some authoritative asshole going, "You know, English needs to be a lot more like XYZ language." You see this is many words where they try to formalize English spelling using Greek and Latin spelling principles or word origins. Even if the English word was never derived from Greek or Latin, but it made it look better. Off top of my head when I read about this long ago, the word island. It's like isla or isula for Latin that relates to the concept of an island. So someone thought that English speakers saying, "iland", should add an s in there. The whole English spelling issue is a far more deep rooted and complex problem than your hand-wavy comment gives it credit for. In truth, folks with your attitude are what led us to the current mess because, "they knew better than all those low lives".
    - vidarh 6y ago
      As I pointed out, singular they/them has been well established in English for centuries (it dates to the 1300s) Trying to cater for people who get worked up over singular they/them is not worth the effort.
      - jfk13 6y ago
        And how do you feel about the use of "he" as a generic pronoun in reference to an individual of undetermined gender? That has also been well established in English for centuries.