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> The aristocrats and oligarchs of the olden days might have been corrupt, debauched and half-useless, but at least they knew it. Corruption is an incredible p

> The aristocrats and oligarchs of the olden days might have been corrupt, debauched and half-useless, but at least they knew it. Corruption is an incredible poverty multiplier, combined with debauched and half-useless is just insane. Living in a society led by such people isn't fair by any means. Arrogant new wealth is 100x better then old corrupt wealth that only seeks to entrench itself and friends. New wealth in proper democracies at least has a proven track record of competency and general societal good, it can also do a lot of good when spent (see Bill Gates) If you are all worried about wealth, just put 99% estate tax, will cover both old and new wealth.

laurent92 6y ago
Entrenched money stabilizes the world. Imagine putting 10% of the billionaires of the world on a boat, those who pull the strings of their empires to keep their nations into status-quo, and imagine the boat sinks. A year later, all those entrenched interests dematerialize, fewer powers hold people together, diplomacy isn’t as balanced as it has been when billionaires weighed in, and war starts. That’s the story of the Titanic, sunk in 1913.
- gloriana 6y ago
  do you have any reading material on this? curious idea
- adriancr 6y ago
  > Entrenched money stabilizes the world. It stabilizes the world into a corrupt distopia where those people rule only to entrench themselves and their friends (incompetent and malign as they are) What you are describing is the old feudalism approach where aristocracy controlled everything. How well did that turn out for the serfs?, then how did it work out historically for everyone?, how many are still around?
  - Spivak 6y ago
    But entrenching themselves is a benign end. I don’t really care that very very wealthy people exist and seek to carve out exceptions for themselves to maintain that wealth. The harm that’s done is vague and more the realm of economics. But very very wealthy people who want to “change the world” are individuals with the monetary weight of tens of thousands of people and can do things that for others would require and naturally be tempered by cooperation.
    - ameister14 6y ago
      When has concentrated and entrenched wealth ever been a benign end?
- dTal 6y ago
  The Titanic sank in 1912. That's a pretty glaring error when you're making such a sweeping assertion as this.
  - bagpuss 6y ago
    it took a while to reach the bottom.
  - SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
    The movie did feel a year long.
- ameister14 6y ago
  I mean, that's a gross oversimplification and while a neat story, it's really the same as saying rising CEO wages resulted in a lowering of measles cases across the US because they started going up as measles went down. You clearly haven't studied WWI or its causes or you'd realize that the entrenched interests were responsible for the spread of the war in the first place. It's the opposite of what you're saying happened.
- enkid 6y ago
  First, the Titanic sunk in 1912. Second, these are two events that happened around the same time. That does not mean they are at all related. Titanic primarily carried American and British passengers. The start of World War I primarily involved Austria, Serbia, Germany, and Russia. It's hard to see how British or American Millionaires would have influenced those events to stop the war.
  - busterarm 6y ago
    Banking, at the level of being the financier of nations, was a global industry then as it is now. Many of those people at the time were British or American and a number of them died on that boat.
    - ameister14 6y ago
      "A number of them" is an interesting way to say two.
      - busterarm 6y ago
        To be fair, the alternative presented by the comment I responded to was zero. Also we're talking 2 out of maybe 6-10 people (and their families/heirs traveling with them)? Not like 2 out of thousands.
        ameister14 6y ago
        No, we're talking about 2 out of hundreds. George H. Burr & Co, the Morgans, Henry Goldman, Samuel Sachs and their families, the list goes on and that's just NY - the banking families were numerous.
    - enkid 6y ago
      How does having extra bankers stop someone from assassinating an archduke, Austria from sending an ultimatum, or Russia from supporting Serbia? I don't see it.
- bigbillheck 6y ago
  > Imagine putting 10% of the billionaires of the world on a boat, those who pull the strings of their empires to keep their nations into status-quo, and imagine the boat sinks. How do we make this happen?
hellbannedguy 6y ago
Bill Gates 501c3 puts back less than 1 percent off their benovelent humanitarian money back to the United States. The country that coddled him, an his connected mother. Personally, I think these good ole nonprofit boys; Billy, Zuck, Warren, etc. are tax dodgers. Obama wanted to reform nonprofit regulations, but chickened out.
- adriancr 6y ago
  Imagine if Microsoft were Chinese or Japanese or based in the EU. Would that have been better? Also, Bill Gates revolutionized the computer industry and brought a lot of wealth and power to the US and control of a good industry. The fact that he right now goes for diseases world wide is great, I would not want to die from Polio or Malaria, those disease can always make a comeback and spread like Covid... it would be better to have them eradicated entirely.
- nindalf 6y ago
  Yeah Bill Gates - terrible guy. Spending money trying to eradicate diseases that kill poor people. What's worse, here's him in 2015 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI) wasting money and faffing on about some pandemic. As if that's going to happen, and even if it does the pandemic won't affect rich countries in any way.
  - dasil003 6y ago
    Sure I’ll give credit for his recent philanthropy, but the man crushed a generation of innovative software companies under his heel. Fortunately he didn’t see the web coming and failed to stop Linux, but make no mistake was not a good person for most of his career, and we are still feeling the effects of the damage he did to the software world.
    - Spivak 6y ago
      I know we’re in a form of technology people but to put it bluntly — nobody cares. Microsoft is a massive massive successes story for the US in which a US company has a dominant position in the world market for software. You forget that outside of tech everything that MS did that we rail on about will be remembered as good business. Nobody except people on the inside have these idealistic views about software and freedom and all that.
eevilspock 6y ago
You had me until "Arrogant new wealth is 100x better" getting murdered vs getting aggressive cancer

laurent92 6y ago

Entrenched money stabilizes the world. Imagine putting 10% of the billionaires of the world on a boat, those who pull the strings of their empires to keep their nations into status-quo, and imagine the boat sinks. A year later, all those entrenched interests dematerialize, fewer powers hold people together, diplomacy isn’t as balanced as it has been when billionaires weighed in, and war starts. That’s the story of the Titanic, sunk in 1913.

gloriana 6y ago
do you have any reading material on this? curious idea
adriancr 6y ago
> Entrenched money stabilizes the world. It stabilizes the world into a corrupt distopia where those people rule only to entrench themselves and their friends (incompetent and malign as they are) What you are describing is the old feudalism approach where aristocracy controlled everything. How well did that turn out for the serfs?, then how did it work out historically for everyone?, how many are still around?
- Spivak 6y ago
  But entrenching themselves is a benign end. I don’t really care that very very wealthy people exist and seek to carve out exceptions for themselves to maintain that wealth. The harm that’s done is vague and more the realm of economics. But very very wealthy people who want to “change the world” are individuals with the monetary weight of tens of thousands of people and can do things that for others would require and naturally be tempered by cooperation.
  - ameister14 6y ago
    When has concentrated and entrenched wealth ever been a benign end?
dTal 6y ago
The Titanic sank in 1912. That's a pretty glaring error when you're making such a sweeping assertion as this.
- bagpuss 6y ago
  it took a while to reach the bottom.
- SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
  The movie did feel a year long.
ameister14 6y ago
I mean, that's a gross oversimplification and while a neat story, it's really the same as saying rising CEO wages resulted in a lowering of measles cases across the US because they started going up as measles went down. You clearly haven't studied WWI or its causes or you'd realize that the entrenched interests were responsible for the spread of the war in the first place. It's the opposite of what you're saying happened.
enkid 6y ago
First, the Titanic sunk in 1912. Second, these are two events that happened around the same time. That does not mean they are at all related. Titanic primarily carried American and British passengers. The start of World War I primarily involved Austria, Serbia, Germany, and Russia. It's hard to see how British or American Millionaires would have influenced those events to stop the war.
- busterarm 6y ago
  Banking, at the level of being the financier of nations, was a global industry then as it is now. Many of those people at the time were British or American and a number of them died on that boat.
  - ameister14 6y ago
    "A number of them" is an interesting way to say two.
    - busterarm 6y ago
      To be fair, the alternative presented by the comment I responded to was zero. Also we're talking 2 out of maybe 6-10 people (and their families/heirs traveling with them)? Not like 2 out of thousands.
      - ameister14 6y ago
        No, we're talking about 2 out of hundreds. George H. Burr & Co, the Morgans, Henry Goldman, Samuel Sachs and their families, the list goes on and that's just NY - the banking families were numerous.
  - enkid 6y ago
    How does having extra bankers stop someone from assassinating an archduke, Austria from sending an ultimatum, or Russia from supporting Serbia? I don't see it.
bigbillheck 6y ago
> Imagine putting 10% of the billionaires of the world on a boat, those who pull the strings of their empires to keep their nations into status-quo, and imagine the boat sinks. How do we make this happen?

hellbannedguy 6y ago

Bill Gates 501c3 puts back less than 1 percent off their benovelent humanitarian money back to the United States. The country that coddled him, an his connected mother. Personally, I think these good ole nonprofit boys; Billy, Zuck, Warren, etc. are tax dodgers. Obama wanted to reform nonprofit regulations, but chickened out.

adriancr 6y ago
Imagine if Microsoft were Chinese or Japanese or based in the EU. Would that have been better? Also, Bill Gates revolutionized the computer industry and brought a lot of wealth and power to the US and control of a good industry. The fact that he right now goes for diseases world wide is great, I would not want to die from Polio or Malaria, those disease can always make a comeback and spread like Covid... it would be better to have them eradicated entirely.
nindalf 6y ago
Yeah Bill Gates - terrible guy. Spending money trying to eradicate diseases that kill poor people. What's worse, here's him in 2015 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Af6b_wyiwI) wasting money and faffing on about some pandemic. As if that's going to happen, and even if it does the pandemic won't affect rich countries in any way.
- dasil003 6y ago
  Sure I’ll give credit for his recent philanthropy, but the man crushed a generation of innovative software companies under his heel. Fortunately he didn’t see the web coming and failed to stop Linux, but make no mistake was not a good person for most of his career, and we are still feeling the effects of the damage he did to the software world.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I know we’re in a form of technology people but to put it bluntly — nobody cares. Microsoft is a massive massive successes story for the US in which a US company has a dominant position in the world market for software. You forget that outside of tech everything that MS did that we rail on about will be remembered as good business. Nobody except people on the inside have these idealistic views about software and freedom and all that.

eevilspock 6y ago

You had me until "Arrogant new wealth is 100x better" getting murdered vs getting aggressive cancer