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> Soap doesn’t work. Toilets don’t flush. Clothes washers don’t clean. Light bulbs don’t illuminate. Refrigerators break too soon. Paint discolors. Lawnmowers h

by caslon 6y ago

> Soap doesn’t work. Toilets don’t flush. Clothes washers don’t clean. Light bulbs don’t illuminate. Refrigerators break too soon. Paint discolors. Lawnmowers have to be hacked. It’s all caused by idiotic government regulations that are wrecking our lives one consumer product at a time, all in ways we hardly notice. This sounds like conspiracy if I've ever heard one. The reason for all of these problems is the market, not government. The gas can is a trojan horse in this article. You can get perfectly fine light bulbs. Can get perfectly great refrigerators. Lawnmowers still work just fine, with no need to be hacked. It's like complaining that the reason printers are so bad is because of "the damn government!" and citing HP's behavior when ignoring that there are brands that don't screw over the consumer for profit reasons.

gruez 6y ago
>Soap doesn’t work presumably referring to government regulations mandating them to have less (or zero) phosphorus >Toilets don’t flush presumably referring to government regulations mandating low flush toilets >Light bulbs don’t illuminate presumably referring to government regulations banning incandescent bulbs, requiring the use of CFL bulbs The rest, I'm not sure about.
- thatguy0900 6y ago
  Paint discoloring is removing lead, I think
- caslon 6y ago
  Which is ludicrous, because none of those actually made the products worse. To go into one I'm really familiar with: light bulbs are fine after banning incandescent bulbs. LED bulbs (which were still available at time of the regulations) are better than incandescent bulbs in nearly every way, as long as you don't cheap out and go for one that flickers at under the rate of an incandescent. The problem is poor consumer education, not government regulations.
  - mhb 6y ago
    Instead of cherry picking one which might arguably, after many years of development, have turned out all right, why not explain how great low flush toilets are? In part 2, say why toilet size regulations are a better way of addressing water or energy concerns than a more direct method.
    - caslon 6y ago
      I went to the one I'm most familiar with. Also, it was fine even when the regulations happened. It's not cherry-picking, it's choosing to speak on the one I'm most qualified to speak on. I live in an area of the country way too low-income to have dealt with most of those problems. But out of the problems listed, I know multiple of them to be outright lies, and since the author was fine about lying about the few I know for sure, it doesn't seem unlikely that the others are also lies.
  - gruez 6y ago
    >LED bulbs (which were still available at time of the regulations) LED bulbs were readily available at the time? My memory might be fuzzy, but the phase out started in 2012[1], and the lighting section at the hardware store was a sea of CFLs. [1] In December 2007, the federal government enacted the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 (EISA), [...] The law was to effectively ban most incandescent light bulbs, starting in January 2012. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_ligh...
jtbayly 6y ago
Baloney. I can tell you right now about the regulations that wrecked soap in dishwashers, as well as the off-market workaround. I can tell you about how dishwashers were forced to work with not enough water. And washing machines. And I remember when light bulbs got broken by the government. And how I went out and bought an extra large pack of the bulbs that actually work before you couldn't buy them anymore. I don't know about the rest of them, but even if the rest are market driven to some extent, I wouldn't be surprised if the government was involved in some way.
- caslon 6y ago
  To copy one I already wrote for a different comment: To go into one I'm really familiar with: light bulbs are fine after banning incandescent bulbs. LED bulbs (which were still available at time of the regulations) are better than incandescent bulbs in nearly every way, as long as you don't cheap out and go for one that flickers at under the rate of an incandescent. The problem is poor consumer education, not government regulations. The consumer is stupid, which is a problem even the FEE would agree on.
  - jtbayly 6y ago
    Sure. As long as you were super rich. They were $10-$15 per 60W equivalent bulb and you couldn't get ones that were 90W equivalent. The only bulbs that were remotely close to affordable were CFLs that were terrible. And you know what? The LED bulbs I've owned don't last 10k hours, either. Edit: And now they are selling light fixtures with the LED's integrated and non-replaceable. So when the bulb goes out you have to throw the fixture out and replace the whole stupid thing. Talk about land-fill increase. Not to mention the risk of electrocution and/or fire from consumers trying to do wiring themselves, or the waste of paying an electrician to replace your light bulb...
    - caslon 6y ago
      > Edit: And now they are selling light fixtures with the LED's integrated and non-replaceable. Market!
mhb 6y ago
The market was clamoring for low flush toilets to the exclusion of one flush toilets? Preposterous.
- ppf 6y ago
  Let's not forget (at least in the EU), power-limited vacuum cleaners that don't clean.
kenmacd 6y ago
> Light bulbs don’t illuminate. I find this one especially funny as it's pretty much the lack of regulation that made the 'old' bulbs burn out much too quickly [1]. And before someone says "but my LED bulbs keep burning out", also the free-market/lack of regulation. To see how they should be built watch Clive on how bulbs are made for Dubai[2]. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5v8D-alAKE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5v8D-alAKE 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4
- josephcsible 6y ago
  Yes, those Dubai bulbs are better than the ones we're all stuck with. But isn't that because of a regulation rather than because of the market? In particular, when Dubai accepted those kind of bulbs, didn't it prevent the manufacturer from selling them anywhere else?
  - kenmacd 6y ago
    > But isn't that because of a regulation rather than because of the market? Yes. Sorry, that was what I was trying to convey. The 'market' brought us incandescent bulbs that were purpose built to fail much earlier . The market brought us LED bulbs that overdrive fewer LEDs resulting in them burning out and running less efficiently. Dubai, in essence, went the regulation road and has longer-lasting more-efficient bulbs because of it.
    - josephcsible 6y ago
      That's not what I meant. My point was that Dubai has a regulation that prohibits their efficient LEDs from being sold anywhere else. If not for that regulation, then the efficient Dubai bulbs could be bought worldwide.
      - kenmacd 6y ago
        I don't understand. How does Dubai control what other sovereign nations citizens are allowed to buy? And even if they did, why would they do so?

by caslon 6y ago

gruez 6y ago

>Soap doesn’t work presumably referring to government regulations mandating them to have less (or zero) phosphorus >Toilets don’t flush presumably referring to government regulations mandating low flush toilets >Light bulbs don’t illuminate presumably referring to government regulations banning incandescent bulbs, requiring the use of CFL bulbs The rest, I'm not sure about.

thatguy0900 6y ago
Paint discoloring is removing lead, I think
caslon 6y ago
Which is ludicrous, because none of those actually made the products worse. To go into one I'm really familiar with: light bulbs are fine after banning incandescent bulbs. LED bulbs (which were still available at time of the regulations) are better than incandescent bulbs in nearly every way, as long as you don't cheap out and go for one that flickers at under the rate of an incandescent. The problem is poor consumer education, not government regulations.
- mhb 6y ago
  Instead of cherry picking one which might arguably, after many years of development, have turned out all right, why not explain how great low flush toilets are? In part 2, say why toilet size regulations are a better way of addressing water or energy concerns than a more direct method.
  - caslon 6y ago
    I went to the one I'm most familiar with. Also, it was fine even when the regulations happened. It's not cherry-picking, it's choosing to speak on the one I'm most qualified to speak on. I live in an area of the country way too low-income to have dealt with most of those problems. But out of the problems listed, I know multiple of them to be outright lies, and since the author was fine about lying about the few I know for sure, it doesn't seem unlikely that the others are also lies.
- gruez 6y ago
  >LED bulbs (which were still available at time of the regulations) LED bulbs were readily available at the time? My memory might be fuzzy, but the phase out started in 2012[1], and the lighting section at the hardware store was a sea of CFLs. [1] In December 2007, the federal government enacted the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 (EISA), [...] The law was to effectively ban most incandescent light bulbs, starting in January 2012. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_ligh...

jtbayly 6y ago

Baloney. I can tell you right now about the regulations that wrecked soap in dishwashers, as well as the off-market workaround. I can tell you about how dishwashers were forced to work with not enough water. And washing machines. And I remember when light bulbs got broken by the government. And how I went out and bought an extra large pack of the bulbs that actually work before you couldn't buy them anymore. I don't know about the rest of them, but even if the rest are market driven to some extent, I wouldn't be surprised if the government was involved in some way.

caslon 6y ago
To copy one I already wrote for a different comment: To go into one I'm really familiar with: light bulbs are fine after banning incandescent bulbs. LED bulbs (which were still available at time of the regulations) are better than incandescent bulbs in nearly every way, as long as you don't cheap out and go for one that flickers at under the rate of an incandescent. The problem is poor consumer education, not government regulations. The consumer is stupid, which is a problem even the FEE would agree on.
- jtbayly 6y ago
  Sure. As long as you were super rich. They were $10-$15 per 60W equivalent bulb and you couldn't get ones that were 90W equivalent. The only bulbs that were remotely close to affordable were CFLs that were terrible. And you know what? The LED bulbs I've owned don't last 10k hours, either. Edit: And now they are selling light fixtures with the LED's integrated and non-replaceable. So when the bulb goes out you have to throw the fixture out and replace the whole stupid thing. Talk about land-fill increase. Not to mention the risk of electrocution and/or fire from consumers trying to do wiring themselves, or the waste of paying an electrician to replace your light bulb...
  - caslon 6y ago
    > Edit: And now they are selling light fixtures with the LED's integrated and non-replaceable. Market!

mhb 6y ago

The market was clamoring for low flush toilets to the exclusion of one flush toilets? Preposterous.

ppf 6y ago
Let's not forget (at least in the EU), power-limited vacuum cleaners that don't clean.

kenmacd 6y ago

> Light bulbs don’t illuminate. I find this one especially funny as it's pretty much the lack of regulation that made the 'old' bulbs burn out much too quickly [1]. And before someone says "but my LED bulbs keep burning out", also the free-market/lack of regulation. To see how they should be built watch Clive on how bulbs are made for Dubai[2]. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5v8D-alAKE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5v8D-alAKE 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4

josephcsible 6y ago
Yes, those Dubai bulbs are better than the ones we're all stuck with. But isn't that because of a regulation rather than because of the market? In particular, when Dubai accepted those kind of bulbs, didn't it prevent the manufacturer from selling them anywhere else?
- kenmacd 6y ago
  > But isn't that because of a regulation rather than because of the market? Yes. Sorry, that was what I was trying to convey. The 'market' brought us incandescent bulbs that were purpose built to fail much earlier . The market brought us LED bulbs that overdrive fewer LEDs resulting in them burning out and running less efficiently. Dubai, in essence, went the regulation road and has longer-lasting more-efficient bulbs because of it.
  - josephcsible 6y ago
    That's not what I meant. My point was that Dubai has a regulation that prohibits their efficient LEDs from being sold anywhere else. If not for that regulation, then the efficient Dubai bulbs could be bought worldwide.
    - kenmacd 6y ago
      I don't understand. How does Dubai control what other sovereign nations citizens are allowed to buy? And even if they did, why would they do so?