3 ms·

> All you need is a computer. Plus free time. Plus motivation and energy which is probably in short supply when you've already done 8 hours in a supermarket /

> All you need is a computer. Plus free time. Plus motivation and energy which is probably in short supply when you've already done 8 hours in a supermarket / your second job / a full day of childcare / etc. > a few hundred bucks. It's a pretty low bar. For a lot of people in the US, a few hundred bucks is the difference between eating that month and going without. Or being able to pay the rent and not be evicted. Or being able to afford transport to/from their job.

taurath 6y ago
Of course they’re not talking about “those people”, aka the 63% of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck. When the ultra rich speak they’re only speaking to the upper middle 40%. We love a good rags to riches story but economic class changes less in the US than many other countries, despite this “ease”. Show me any group of founders and you can point to a few outliers but people who have had jobs like grocery store clerk by and large do not go on to make a business. The bar is lowered enough for upper middle class only, with few exceptions.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  > 63% of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck That doesn't mean they're poor. I've known many, many people with zero savings living paycheck to paycheck. They had new cars, nice houses, good furniture, expensive clothes, took vacations, and ate regularly at restaurants. They simply spent it all.
  - TheButlerian 6y ago
    Get cancer and die
  - ironman1478 6y ago
    You are truly out of touch with people who are in poverty or near it. My parents each work 60-70+ hour manual labor jobs not including brutal commutes. We were paycheck to paycheck for over a decade until my mom became a nurse (being able to pay for it was complete luck). My father didn't take a day off for over a decade include the weekends it felt like (obviously slight exaggeration) and injured himself multiple times on the job due to the stress. It's truly insulting and saddening to see this sentiment expressed. It is so out of touch.
    - WalterBright 6y ago
      I didn't deny the existence of poverty. I do not deny your personal experience. There's a lot of poverty. I said that living paycheck to paycheck does not necessarily mean poverty. According to google, the percentage of Americans in poverty is 9.2% for 2020, not 63%.
      - taurath 6y ago
        FWIW I agree that paycheck to paycheck doesn’t mean poverty, but to say it’s only the people below the poverty line that can’t afford to take any risks with their source of income is also quite wrong. Finances are quite tight overall - for the upper middle class that might mean living in an expensive area. For the middle class that might mean holding onto house and childcare payments. Those are choices sometimes, and others not. What is also very common is to want a different job but not have the skillset people need, and no way to sacrifice the time it’d take to gain that skillset. Also age, if you wanted to be a programmer at 40 you could go to school for 4 years only to find there’s almost nobody willing to hire you at that age. This leads to people basically being stuck, unable to change their situation and certainly not able to have the runway to try to build out a business without an old fashioned bank loan. Software engineers have a completely different set of problems than people who don’t work in tech.
        WalterBright 6y ago
        My first job after college was at Boeing, where I received an entry level paycheck. We were paid every other Thursday at noon. Just before noon, there was a mad rush of people out the door, running to their cars and zooming off. I asked one of the old timers what was up with that, and he laughed and said they're running to the bank to deposit the paycheck before their checks bounced. These were middle class people, paid much more than myself. They had no money, but they had plenty of income. They just spent it all. And there were a lot of them. I can give you many, many real life examples. As for unemployable ancient programmers, I'm one of them. I know about it. The solution is hire yourself. Nobody can stop you from buying a computer and hanging out your shingle. Companies are much more likely to hire an older person as a consultant than as an employee. Contribute to open source to build a reputation. Several companies regularly scan the D programming language forums looking for people to hire, and they'll often hire remotely. Everybody has some opportunities that are closed off to them. But they do have avenues that are available to be exploited. Focus on those.
WalterBright 6y ago
> already done 8 hours I started my first business while working for Boeing 50 hours a week (they had mandatory overtime for years).

taurath 6y ago

Of course they’re not talking about “those people”, aka the 63% of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck. When the ultra rich speak they’re only speaking to the upper middle 40%. We love a good rags to riches story but economic class changes less in the US than many other countries, despite this “ease”. Show me any group of founders and you can point to a few outliers but people who have had jobs like grocery store clerk by and large do not go on to make a business. The bar is lowered enough for upper middle class only, with few exceptions.

WalterBright 6y ago
> 63% of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck That doesn't mean they're poor. I've known many, many people with zero savings living paycheck to paycheck. They had new cars, nice houses, good furniture, expensive clothes, took vacations, and ate regularly at restaurants. They simply spent it all.
- TheButlerian 6y ago
  Get cancer and die
- ironman1478 6y ago
  You are truly out of touch with people who are in poverty or near it. My parents each work 60-70+ hour manual labor jobs not including brutal commutes. We were paycheck to paycheck for over a decade until my mom became a nurse (being able to pay for it was complete luck). My father didn't take a day off for over a decade include the weekends it felt like (obviously slight exaggeration) and injured himself multiple times on the job due to the stress. It's truly insulting and saddening to see this sentiment expressed. It is so out of touch.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    I didn't deny the existence of poverty. I do not deny your personal experience. There's a lot of poverty. I said that living paycheck to paycheck does not necessarily mean poverty. According to google, the percentage of Americans in poverty is 9.2% for 2020, not 63%.
    - taurath 6y ago
      FWIW I agree that paycheck to paycheck doesn’t mean poverty, but to say it’s only the people below the poverty line that can’t afford to take any risks with their source of income is also quite wrong. Finances are quite tight overall - for the upper middle class that might mean living in an expensive area. For the middle class that might mean holding onto house and childcare payments. Those are choices sometimes, and others not. What is also very common is to want a different job but not have the skillset people need, and no way to sacrifice the time it’d take to gain that skillset. Also age, if you wanted to be a programmer at 40 you could go to school for 4 years only to find there’s almost nobody willing to hire you at that age. This leads to people basically being stuck, unable to change their situation and certainly not able to have the runway to try to build out a business without an old fashioned bank loan. Software engineers have a completely different set of problems than people who don’t work in tech.
      - WalterBright 6y ago
        My first job after college was at Boeing, where I received an entry level paycheck. We were paid every other Thursday at noon. Just before noon, there was a mad rush of people out the door, running to their cars and zooming off. I asked one of the old timers what was up with that, and he laughed and said they're running to the bank to deposit the paycheck before their checks bounced. These were middle class people, paid much more than myself. They had no money, but they had plenty of income. They just spent it all. And there were a lot of them. I can give you many, many real life examples. As for unemployable ancient programmers, I'm one of them. I know about it. The solution is hire yourself. Nobody can stop you from buying a computer and hanging out your shingle. Companies are much more likely to hire an older person as a consultant than as an employee. Contribute to open source to build a reputation. Several companies regularly scan the D programming language forums looking for people to hire, and they'll often hire remotely. Everybody has some opportunities that are closed off to them. But they do have avenues that are available to be exploited. Focus on those.

WalterBright 6y ago

> already done 8 hours I started my first business while working for Boeing 50 hours a week (they had mandatory overtime for years).