4 ms·

I really think that lumping forcible rape in the same category as a 17 year old successfuly seducing a 21 year old in California (as opposed to, say, Spain) is

I really think that lumping forcible rape in the same category as a 17 year old successfuly seducing a 21 year old in California (as opposed to, say, Spain) is bad for discourse. Even if we grant the latter is harmful and wrong, the mechanism via which the harm happens is different, as is the amount of harm.

goodpoint 6y ago
>a 17 year old successfuly seducing a 21 year old Most countries have laws allowing relationships within an age difference of 3 or 4 or 5 years. But some people want to blur the lines around consent claiming that a 15yo can consent to sex with some 45yo without the latter being held responsible. > the mechanism via which the harm happens is different, as is the amount of harm I never argued otherwise. Just like for any other illegal behavior, legal systems are designed take into account the circumstance and impact of an event. But this does not change the initial point about informed consent and rape being rape.
- concordDance 6y ago
  > But this does not change the initial point about informed consent and rape being rape. I think it does. "Rape being rape" relies on the word having a precise meaning where all things in the category share essential characteristics that allow you to make moral judgements based on category membership. But "rape", like all heavily contested political words with high moral weight, is definitely not such a word. It has a canonical example value (unfortunately I feel I have to be specific here: a stranger dragging a fighting women into the bushes and sticking his penis in her until he cums), but has a range of meanings that varies fairly drastically across conversational contexts (e.g. we talking ethics/morality? Law? Descriptiveness?), geography (e.g. is drunk sex rape? Depends on jurisdiction. What counts as a "minor"?), time and even subcultures.

goodpoint 6y ago

>a 17 year old successfuly seducing a 21 year old Most countries have laws allowing relationships within an age difference of 3 or 4 or 5 years. But some people want to blur the lines around consent claiming that a 15yo can consent to sex with some 45yo without the latter being held responsible. > the mechanism via which the harm happens is different, as is the amount of harm I never argued otherwise. Just like for any other illegal behavior, legal systems are designed take into account the circumstance and impact of an event. But this does not change the initial point about informed consent and rape being rape.

concordDance 6y ago
> But this does not change the initial point about informed consent and rape being rape. I think it does. "Rape being rape" relies on the word having a precise meaning where all things in the category share essential characteristics that allow you to make moral judgements based on category membership. But "rape", like all heavily contested political words with high moral weight, is definitely not such a word. It has a canonical example value (unfortunately I feel I have to be specific here: a stranger dragging a fighting women into the bushes and sticking his penis in her until he cums), but has a range of meanings that varies fairly drastically across conversational contexts (e.g. we talking ethics/morality? Law? Descriptiveness?), geography (e.g. is drunk sex rape? Depends on jurisdiction. What counts as a "minor"?), time and even subcultures.