4 ms·

I've had to deal with RMS on a number of matters since the 1990s (mostly on egcs/GCC) and have had many conversations and arguments with him over the years. Wh

by not2b 6y ago

I've had to deal with RMS on a number of matters since the 1990s (mostly on egcs/GCC) and have had many conversations and arguments with him over the years. While the petition doesn't quite get it right, RMS's behavior has been problematic for decades, particularly his behavior towards women. He doesn't get when he's being offensive or ineffective and won't listen when well-meaning people try to work with him to do better. He wants to control language, not just on matters like saying "GNU/Linux", but also on how trans people are referred to, against their repeated requests, which isn't so much hate as obnoxious control-freakery we don't need. And for years he's defended sex with "consenting" underaged people. These things don't make him a monster, but they do make him an impediment to the FSF's mission, if the FSF sees their mission as the advancement of free software principles and not just as RMS's personal hobby horse, providing the software needed for computing circa 1995 and rejecting the new. RMS's defenders often say that the free software movement is RMS. If so, it's in trouble; the guy is 68. They should give him some kind of honored emeritus status, take him out of the work flow that GNU contributors must deal with, and work on growing the movement.

bmn__ 6y ago
> He wants to control […] how trans people are referred to, against their repeated requests Show the source or "it didn't happen", as they say on image boards. I want to make my own conclusion given the evidence. I place this obligation on you because previous anecdotes or attacks by other people turned out to be unsubstantiated or outright fabricated when investigated, and because I hold HNers in esteem not become part of a mob.
- Shish2k 6y ago
  I’m pretty sure people are referring to https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Tl;dr: trans men are men, trans women are women, non-binary people are fine too; singular “they” is ambiguous and it would be better to use a non-ambiguous word, so he plans to use a non-ambiguous word, though others are welcome to continue using “they” if they want to. (As a non-binary “they” myself I’m fine with this ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It’s like if somebody hated how the word “one” breaks so many rules of pronounciation and decided to always use the spanish “uno” to refer to 1 of anything - good point, weird solution, I’m not going to try and get anybody fired over it...)
- not2b 6y ago
  You are not in a position to put an obligation on me. I'm a founding member of the egcs/GCC steering committee, though I quit that role quite a while ago and am no longer a contributor. I've known RMS since the 90s and have been with him in person in small groups back then. I'm an eyewitness to RMS repeatedly creeping out women, but I don't have video. Take my word or not, your choice.
  - sildur 6y ago
    > I'm a founding member of the egcs/GCC steering committee Good for you. > I've known RMS since the 90s and have been with him in person in small groups back then. I'm an eyewitness to RMS repeatedly creeping out women, but I don't have video. Well, me too, and I saw him behaving respectfully with women. He was a hugely shy person with made huge efforts to keep us entertained. I'm still waiting for someone to produce a single police report. And I think you don't know him. The only thing you said about his character is the crap the hit pieces mention. Nothing more. And there is a lot more. Pity.
thefz 6y ago
> He doesn't get when he's being offensive or ineffective and won't listen when well-meaning people try to work with him to do better. I want to live in a world where being "offensive" is not a crime, considering that being offensive to who is really subjective. There is a large difference between a man's character and his own work. Jobs is idolized by the US while at the same time being recognized the worst asshole one can have worked/lived with (he even denied recognition to his own daughter). Just label RMS another asshole and move on if you don't like the man. I wonder how many of his critics live a real life, with real bosses, colleagues, even family members and friends they don't agree with. The road to hell is paved with attempts to please everyone.
- not2b 6y ago
  In answer to your last sentence: almost every single one of his critics has lived a real life, with real bosses and colleagues, etc. The difficulty is that if the problematic person is in control, the only way to "move on" is to not deal with the organization that person controls. If this is what the FSF wants, they can go in that direction.
  - sildur 6y ago
    Yes, this is what the FSF wants. Now go make your own FSF. With blackjack.
CodeGlitch 6y ago
> He wants to control language, not just on matters like saying "GNU/Linux", but also on how trans people are referred to Also see the current woke ideology. Language is everything to these people. edit: To further expand on my comment. I agree with you that he is wrong to control what people say, but I don't think he should be cancelled for it.
- not2b 6y ago
  Language is everything to RMS too, and he himself has "cancelled" people for refusing to use the terms he prefers, rejecting them as maintainers for GNU projects on that basis.
enriquto 6y ago
> obnoxious control-freakery we don't need Maybe you don't need such language control-freakery. But the world definitely needs more obnoxiously uncompromising people like RMS, who go out of their way to "harass" people at airports because their noise-cancelling headphones are running on non-free software! There's already enough corporate drones who "just call it open source", while literally kneeling [0] to Microsoft; we need more Stallmans, not just him. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20210318230618if_/http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/osi-microsoft-photo-op.jpg https://web.archive.org/web/20210318230618if_/http://techrig...

by not2b 6y ago

bmn__ 6y ago

> He wants to control […] how trans people are referred to, against their repeated requests Show the source or "it didn't happen", as they say on image boards. I want to make my own conclusion given the evidence. I place this obligation on you because previous anecdotes or attacks by other people turned out to be unsubstantiated or outright fabricated when investigated, and because I hold HNers in esteem not become part of a mob.

Shish2k 6y ago
I’m pretty sure people are referring to https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Tl;dr: trans men are men, trans women are women, non-binary people are fine too; singular “they” is ambiguous and it would be better to use a non-ambiguous word, so he plans to use a non-ambiguous word, though others are welcome to continue using “they” if they want to. (As a non-binary “they” myself I’m fine with this ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It’s like if somebody hated how the word “one” breaks so many rules of pronounciation and decided to always use the spanish “uno” to refer to 1 of anything - good point, weird solution, I’m not going to try and get anybody fired over it...)
not2b 6y ago
You are not in a position to put an obligation on me. I'm a founding member of the egcs/GCC steering committee, though I quit that role quite a while ago and am no longer a contributor. I've known RMS since the 90s and have been with him in person in small groups back then. I'm an eyewitness to RMS repeatedly creeping out women, but I don't have video. Take my word or not, your choice.
- sildur 6y ago
  > I'm a founding member of the egcs/GCC steering committee Good for you. > I've known RMS since the 90s and have been with him in person in small groups back then. I'm an eyewitness to RMS repeatedly creeping out women, but I don't have video. Well, me too, and I saw him behaving respectfully with women. He was a hugely shy person with made huge efforts to keep us entertained. I'm still waiting for someone to produce a single police report. And I think you don't know him. The only thing you said about his character is the crap the hit pieces mention. Nothing more. And there is a lot more. Pity.

thefz 6y ago

> He doesn't get when he's being offensive or ineffective and won't listen when well-meaning people try to work with him to do better. I want to live in a world where being "offensive" is not a crime, considering that being offensive to who is really subjective. There is a large difference between a man's character and his own work. Jobs is idolized by the US while at the same time being recognized the worst asshole one can have worked/lived with (he even denied recognition to his own daughter). Just label RMS another asshole and move on if you don't like the man. I wonder how many of his critics live a real life, with real bosses, colleagues, even family members and friends they don't agree with. The road to hell is paved with attempts to please everyone.

not2b 6y ago
In answer to your last sentence: almost every single one of his critics has lived a real life, with real bosses and colleagues, etc. The difficulty is that if the problematic person is in control, the only way to "move on" is to not deal with the organization that person controls. If this is what the FSF wants, they can go in that direction.
- sildur 6y ago
  Yes, this is what the FSF wants. Now go make your own FSF. With blackjack.

CodeGlitch 6y ago

> He wants to control language, not just on matters like saying "GNU/Linux", but also on how trans people are referred to Also see the current woke ideology. Language is everything to these people. edit: To further expand on my comment. I agree with you that he is wrong to control what people say, but I don't think he should be cancelled for it.

not2b 6y ago
Language is everything to RMS too, and he himself has "cancelled" people for refusing to use the terms he prefers, rejecting them as maintainers for GNU projects on that basis.

enriquto 6y ago

> obnoxious control-freakery we don't need Maybe you don't need such language control-freakery. But the world definitely needs more obnoxiously uncompromising people like RMS, who go out of their way to "harass" people at airports because their noise-cancelling headphones are running on non-free software! There's already enough corporate drones who "just call it open source", while literally kneeling [0] to Microsoft; we need more Stallmans, not just him. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20210318230618if_/http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/osi-microsoft-photo-op.jpg https://web.archive.org/web/20210318230618if_/http://techrig...