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> It makes people uncomfortable to think that success is mostly a matter of luck. I constantly hear this sentiment and don't think it makes people uncomfortabl

> It makes people uncomfortable to think that success is mostly a matter of luck. I constantly hear this sentiment and don't think it makes people uncomfortable at all. If anything it is the opposite, people cling to this idea to absolve themselves of responsibility for their own situation. What makes people far more uncomfortable is the nagging feeling that success isn't mostly a matter of luck. Success is a choice in life that requires restraint, sacrifice, an appetite for risk, and resilience. But if you follow some basic rules (finish high school, don't have kids before marriage, don't do drugs or smoke, minimise alcohol, eat healthy and exercise, don't buy things to impress others), you have a very good chance of being successful in life. Obviously we can't all be billionaires or whatever, but you can definitely live a fairly comfortable and modest life.

rcurry 6y ago
Keith Richards might disagree with you...
seattle_spring 6y ago
Ironically, people I know who did the most drugs in high school (myself included) are the most successful out of the people I know. The straight-laced A students are all way behind.
- mc32 6y ago
  There’s a bifurcation. Yes, I know kids who did drugs (partied as they say) and have some success in life. I also knew some kids who did drugs and barely graduated or dropped out and did poorly or are just hanging on and a handful who didn’t make it out of young adulthood due to those choices. What we need are statistics to tell us what is more likely, not our particular anecdotes.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- TapWaterBandit 6y ago
  I did plenty of drugs too and am doing just fine as well. Not a million or billionaire, but that is a pretty tough standard to meet. That being said, only drugs I ever did were weed, acid, shrooms, MDMA, and trying the odd pharmaceutical. Never any opoids of any sort, never meth etc. And in terms of broad advice, I think not doing drugs is still a fairly consistent rule for good outcomes.
jdgoesmarching 6y ago
Yes, this is my point. You are the people who want to believe that all it takes to be comfortable in life is to “follow some basic rules.” Putting aside that the circumstances of your birth are already a huge matter of luck, I’ll point to the entire US working class and unemployed college graduates as evidence to the contrary. At some point those of us who have grown up in this economy stopped believing in fairy tales and bootstraps. There were a million points from my upbringing to now that could have diverted me from the middle class, so I’m not looking down on my underemployed peers as inferior beings for their struggles.
- TapWaterBandit 6y ago
  > Putting aside that the circumstances of your birth are already a huge matter of luck This is another one of those points that sounds superficially plausible on the surface but makes little sense once you think it through. The circumstances of my birth weren't a matter of luck. My (married) parents decided to have 4 children of which I was one. Before doing this they both finished high school, and stayed away from drugs. They also tried to live healthily etc (but certainly weren't monks). They weren't going to have sex and then a child might pop into existence in Uganda. The only way the whole "your birth was luck" thing makes any sense is if you perceive yourself to be an atomised individual with no deeper ties to the family you came from or the choices that were made by your ancestors who preceded you. Like I said, people are EXTREMELY comfortable with the handwaving of "it's all luck anyway". They won't even take responsibility for themselves and their own lives, so asking them to also feel responsibility to their children/grandchildren/descendants is even more of a foreign concept. As for "I'm not looking down on my underemployed peers as inferior beings for their struggles" those are your words, not mine. I certainly don't look down on my struggling friends/family either, but I am also not going to withhold judging them based on the actions they take. Because very often they also KNOW they shouldn't be doing what they are doing, but choose to do it anyway. Weakness corrupts as much as power, and it is wise not to forget that.
  - jason0597 6y ago
    Before you are conceived, before you even become a zygote, who rolls the dice for which womb you'll end up in? Who decides whether you'll be in the womb of a Japanese mother, an American mother, or a Greek mother? Do we as individuals have any control over which country we are born in? To pretend as if this is not pure chance (luck) is bonkers.
greggman3 6y ago
> finish high school, don't have kids before marriage, don't do drugs or smoke, minimise alcohol, eat healthy and exercise, don't buy things to impress others, none of these correlate at all with the successful people I know.
arvinsim 6y ago
> But if you follow some basic rules (finish high school, don't have kids before marriage, don't do drugs or smoke, minimise alcohol, eat healthy and exercise, don't buy things to impress others), you have a very good chance of being successful in life. The discontent in millenials nowadays is exactly because they are peddled that fairy-tale myth. "Get a degree and get a job, you can will be able to afford a house and a family with children." It might have worked for the older generation but it sure as heck doesn't work now. Why do you think "hustle" culture is so pushed right now? Our parents didn't need to "hustle" to afford these basic things.
- TapWaterBandit 6y ago
  > "Get a degree and get a job, you can will be able to afford a house and a family with children." This is still true, you just might have to move to a different place from where you grew up to get it. You know, like enormous amounts of our parents/grandparents/ancestors did (why did people come to the USA in the first place? Lack of access to housing where they were from ;p )

rcurry 6y ago

Keith Richards might disagree with you...

seattle_spring 6y ago

Ironically, people I know who did the most drugs in high school (myself included) are the most successful out of the people I know. The straight-laced A students are all way behind.

mc32 6y ago
There’s a bifurcation. Yes, I know kids who did drugs (partied as they say) and have some success in life. I also knew some kids who did drugs and barely graduated or dropped out and did poorly or are just hanging on and a handful who didn’t make it out of young adulthood due to those choices. What we need are statistics to tell us what is more likely, not our particular anecdotes.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
TapWaterBandit 6y ago
I did plenty of drugs too and am doing just fine as well. Not a million or billionaire, but that is a pretty tough standard to meet. That being said, only drugs I ever did were weed, acid, shrooms, MDMA, and trying the odd pharmaceutical. Never any opoids of any sort, never meth etc. And in terms of broad advice, I think not doing drugs is still a fairly consistent rule for good outcomes.

jdgoesmarching 6y ago

Yes, this is my point. You are the people who want to believe that all it takes to be comfortable in life is to “follow some basic rules.” Putting aside that the circumstances of your birth are already a huge matter of luck, I’ll point to the entire US working class and unemployed college graduates as evidence to the contrary. At some point those of us who have grown up in this economy stopped believing in fairy tales and bootstraps. There were a million points from my upbringing to now that could have diverted me from the middle class, so I’m not looking down on my underemployed peers as inferior beings for their struggles.

TapWaterBandit 6y ago
> Putting aside that the circumstances of your birth are already a huge matter of luck This is another one of those points that sounds superficially plausible on the surface but makes little sense once you think it through. The circumstances of my birth weren't a matter of luck. My (married) parents decided to have 4 children of which I was one. Before doing this they both finished high school, and stayed away from drugs. They also tried to live healthily etc (but certainly weren't monks). They weren't going to have sex and then a child might pop into existence in Uganda. The only way the whole "your birth was luck" thing makes any sense is if you perceive yourself to be an atomised individual with no deeper ties to the family you came from or the choices that were made by your ancestors who preceded you. Like I said, people are EXTREMELY comfortable with the handwaving of "it's all luck anyway". They won't even take responsibility for themselves and their own lives, so asking them to also feel responsibility to their children/grandchildren/descendants is even more of a foreign concept. As for "I'm not looking down on my underemployed peers as inferior beings for their struggles" those are your words, not mine. I certainly don't look down on my struggling friends/family either, but I am also not going to withhold judging them based on the actions they take. Because very often they also KNOW they shouldn't be doing what they are doing, but choose to do it anyway. Weakness corrupts as much as power, and it is wise not to forget that.
- jason0597 6y ago
  Before you are conceived, before you even become a zygote, who rolls the dice for which womb you'll end up in? Who decides whether you'll be in the womb of a Japanese mother, an American mother, or a Greek mother? Do we as individuals have any control over which country we are born in? To pretend as if this is not pure chance (luck) is bonkers.

greggman3 6y ago

> finish high school, don't have kids before marriage, don't do drugs or smoke, minimise alcohol, eat healthy and exercise, don't buy things to impress others, none of these correlate at all with the successful people I know.

arvinsim 6y ago

> But if you follow some basic rules (finish high school, don't have kids before marriage, don't do drugs or smoke, minimise alcohol, eat healthy and exercise, don't buy things to impress others), you have a very good chance of being successful in life. The discontent in millenials nowadays is exactly because they are peddled that fairy-tale myth. "Get a degree and get a job, you can will be able to afford a house and a family with children." It might have worked for the older generation but it sure as heck doesn't work now. Why do you think "hustle" culture is so pushed right now? Our parents didn't need to "hustle" to afford these basic things.

TapWaterBandit 6y ago
> "Get a degree and get a job, you can will be able to afford a house and a family with children." This is still true, you just might have to move to a different place from where you grew up to get it. You know, like enormous amounts of our parents/grandparents/ancestors did (why did people come to the USA in the first place? Lack of access to housing where they were from ;p )