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Take crypto out of the equation, what are the implications of the fed issuing a programmable currency? Many financial services would become obsolete. What do I

Take crypto out of the equation, what are the implications of the fed issuing a programmable currency? Many financial services would become obsolete. What do I need a stock broker for? What do I need a bank for? You have Wall St and other sophisticated investors profiteering and competing against the general public, devaluing our purchasing power, making leveraged trades because they know the public will hold the bag. It's a system that exists to favor the few and it's time to disrupt the orgy.

KptMarchewa 5y ago
Why are you asking this question here? While I agree with this idea, it has nothing to do with crypto.
heMan09 5y ago
Humanity already solved this problem: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax Most white collar crime is obvious and where the bodies are buried is largely known. There’s simply no political will to do anything about it. Crypto becoming mainstream isn’t going to change indifferent minds. Physical reality is a thing. Burying our heads in ephemeral concepts is distraction, not change.
- stretchwithme 5y ago
  We need to fix how we select our representation. Winner-take-all elections lead to weak control over who represents your interests. It's like being party to a lawsuit where one attorney represents all parties. And you can't fire your attorney for four years. In the single attorney situation, SELECTING the attorney would be the major struggle. And then that attorney has all the power. The parties would then have to lobby the attorney to win the case. And that's why our elections have become such a struggle and why lobbyists can buy votes. And that's why Wall street firms can call up their friends and get a multi-billion dollar bailout.
wayoutthere 5y ago
If the fed did a cryptocurrency, it would be backed by the full might of the US Government — and all the things that the government can do if it decides to print more money. This also includes military and police powers. Which brings me to the other point: currencies are governed at both ends; at issuance and at use. If you use a crypto that’s not approved, the government can simply arrest you for using one of its competitors. The treasury could likely do this without even needing to issue new laws, just new guidance. Governance is the reason for the existence of the US Treasury and Federal Reserve. It’s a core feature of any currency and the government isn’t going to abandon that lever of hard power. They’re only going to do a cryptocurrency that gives them more power, not less. All of the stakeholders you list have a vested interest in not being disintermediated. They’re also deeply embedded in policy creation. I can’t help but notice the way crypto evangelists speak of crypto is the way leftists speak of Marx: in very vague terms outlining a utopian vision of a new economic paradigm that is frustrated by the sticky realities of the momentum of money and power. The reality of Marxism is different from the utopia, as would be the realities of central bank crypto (hint: it’s gonna be authoritarian af).
- loceng 5y ago
  I can see value in democratic nations agreeing to use a single global blockchain they've created, without an MLM-Ponzi structure redistributing wealth simply because of adoption/use (consensus by agreement, not through greed/financial gain).
  - wayoutthere 5y ago
    Totally would never happen; it would require too many people to give up too much power. See also Brexit (the UK never fully integrated into the EU over this exact currency control issue).
    - vinay427 5y ago
      I almost think the several countries that remain in the EU which choose to avoid or delay joining the Eurozone are better examples. While the UK evidently had other concerns with EU membership besides the Euro, even pro-EU governments seem to encounter opposition when it comes to the currency union. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurozone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurozone
hatsunearu 5y ago
The majority of economic activity is not "programmable"--if I order a ship load of steel from some country, how is that contract going to be enforceable/verifiable with cryptoeconomic techniques?
- demosito666 5y ago
  Economic != financial, which was the point of the parent I believe.
  - LB232323 5y ago
    Finance is one of the largest sectors of the US economy, it is central to its role in leading the world economy. Additionally, finance is what controls and directs the economy. It is the business of money itself, in both the public and private sector. Banks play a central role to any economy. Digital currencies can be centralized and controlled in the same way as any state owned enterpeise.
  - hatsunearu 5y ago
    The vast majority of finance deals with "real" assets--stocks of companies (arguably blockchainable, like the Topl thing that a sister comment mentioned), commodities (e.g. futures), logistics, etc etc Not sure how that all can be trustlessly secured with blockchain technology
- pcthrowaway 5y ago
  That's not programmable today, but may be in the future. Presumably the shipment has a series of checkpoints, which add some amount of traceability. There's also the potential for insurance for blockchain contracts. I only recently learned about oracles, but I suspect we're only getting started on unlocking the potential of blockchain. If there are oracles making the progress at each checkpoint along the way available from the blockchain, and insurance contracts for potential disruptions at each stage, your contract can ensure payment on delivery, and the supplier can be insured against any disruptions.
  - 5y ago
mbesto 5y ago
> It's a system that exists to favor the few and it's time to disrupt the orgy. I've got news for you: BTC: 2% of the anonymous ownership accounts that can be tracked on the cryptocurrency's blockchain control 95%[0] ETH: Just 376 People Found to Own a Third of All Ether Cryptocurrency[1] [0] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-18/bitcoin-whales-ownership-concentration-is-rising-during-rally https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-18/bitcoin-w... [1] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-15/just-376-people-found-to-own-a-third-of-all-ether-cryptocurrency https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-15/just-376-...
- chabes 5y ago
  Are you familiar with the concept of cold wallets held by exchanges? https://www.longhash.com/en/news/3257/A-New-Way-of-Measuring-Crypto-Exchange-Dominance:-Cold-Wallet-Storage https://www.longhash.com/en/news/3257/A-New-Way-of-Measuring...
  - mbesto 5y ago
    I am. What's your point? If you don't think crypto, an anonymous unregulated security, is being manipulated by a small amount of people then I have a bridge to sell you.
    - eindiran 5y ago
      I think that OP's point was likely that many of these wallets are actually cold wallets for exchanges and institutions, rather than individual whales. The article's definition of whales is pretty loose anyway: "individuals who hold their assets in digital wallets and not on an exchange".
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
tim333 5y ago
>What do I need a stock broker for? You still have that stuff with crypto, just crypto exchanges not stock exchanges. >What do I need a bank for? Banks do two main things - taking savings and lend that out as mortgages. Crypto has been no good at part two. Basically most financial services would still exist if in modified form.
- bingbong70 5y ago
  P2P loans already exist and are only becoming more competitive as the market grows. This (Bitcoin) will cause a complete disruption of the financial system given enough time.

KptMarchewa 5y ago

Why are you asking this question here? While I agree with this idea, it has nothing to do with crypto.

heMan09 5y ago

Humanity already solved this problem: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax Most white collar crime is obvious and where the bodies are buried is largely known. There’s simply no political will to do anything about it. Crypto becoming mainstream isn’t going to change indifferent minds. Physical reality is a thing. Burying our heads in ephemeral concepts is distraction, not change.

stretchwithme 5y ago
We need to fix how we select our representation. Winner-take-all elections lead to weak control over who represents your interests. It's like being party to a lawsuit where one attorney represents all parties. And you can't fire your attorney for four years. In the single attorney situation, SELECTING the attorney would be the major struggle. And then that attorney has all the power. The parties would then have to lobby the attorney to win the case. And that's why our elections have become such a struggle and why lobbyists can buy votes. And that's why Wall street firms can call up their friends and get a multi-billion dollar bailout.

wayoutthere 5y ago

If the fed did a cryptocurrency, it would be backed by the full might of the US Government — and all the things that the government can do if it decides to print more money. This also includes military and police powers. Which brings me to the other point: currencies are governed at both ends; at issuance and at use. If you use a crypto that’s not approved, the government can simply arrest you for using one of its competitors. The treasury could likely do this without even needing to issue new laws, just new guidance. Governance is the reason for the existence of the US Treasury and Federal Reserve. It’s a core feature of any currency and the government isn’t going to abandon that lever of hard power. They’re only going to do a cryptocurrency that gives them more power, not less. All of the stakeholders you list have a vested interest in not being disintermediated. They’re also deeply embedded in policy creation. I can’t help but notice the way crypto evangelists speak of crypto is the way leftists speak of Marx: in very vague terms outlining a utopian vision of a new economic paradigm that is frustrated by the sticky realities of the momentum of money and power. The reality of Marxism is different from the utopia, as would be the realities of central bank crypto (hint: it’s gonna be authoritarian af).

loceng 5y ago
I can see value in democratic nations agreeing to use a single global blockchain they've created, without an MLM-Ponzi structure redistributing wealth simply because of adoption/use (consensus by agreement, not through greed/financial gain).
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  Totally would never happen; it would require too many people to give up too much power. See also Brexit (the UK never fully integrated into the EU over this exact currency control issue).
  - vinay427 5y ago
    I almost think the several countries that remain in the EU which choose to avoid or delay joining the Eurozone are better examples. While the UK evidently had other concerns with EU membership besides the Euro, even pro-EU governments seem to encounter opposition when it comes to the currency union. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurozone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurozone

hatsunearu 5y ago

The majority of economic activity is not "programmable"--if I order a ship load of steel from some country, how is that contract going to be enforceable/verifiable with cryptoeconomic techniques?

demosito666 5y ago
Economic != financial, which was the point of the parent I believe.
- LB232323 5y ago
  Finance is one of the largest sectors of the US economy, it is central to its role in leading the world economy. Additionally, finance is what controls and directs the economy. It is the business of money itself, in both the public and private sector. Banks play a central role to any economy. Digital currencies can be centralized and controlled in the same way as any state owned enterpeise.
- hatsunearu 5y ago
  The vast majority of finance deals with "real" assets--stocks of companies (arguably blockchainable, like the Topl thing that a sister comment mentioned), commodities (e.g. futures), logistics, etc etc Not sure how that all can be trustlessly secured with blockchain technology
pcthrowaway 5y ago
That's not programmable today, but may be in the future. Presumably the shipment has a series of checkpoints, which add some amount of traceability. There's also the potential for insurance for blockchain contracts. I only recently learned about oracles, but I suspect we're only getting started on unlocking the potential of blockchain. If there are oracles making the progress at each checkpoint along the way available from the blockchain, and insurance contracts for potential disruptions at each stage, your contract can ensure payment on delivery, and the supplier can be insured against any disruptions.
- 5y ago

mbesto 5y ago

> It's a system that exists to favor the few and it's time to disrupt the orgy. I've got news for you: BTC: 2% of the anonymous ownership accounts that can be tracked on the cryptocurrency's blockchain control 95%[0] ETH: Just 376 People Found to Own a Third of All Ether Cryptocurrency[1] [0] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-18/bitcoin-whales-ownership-concentration-is-rising-during-rally https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-18/bitcoin-w... [1] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-15/just-376-people-found-to-own-a-third-of-all-ether-cryptocurrency https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-15/just-376-...

chabes 5y ago
Are you familiar with the concept of cold wallets held by exchanges? https://www.longhash.com/en/news/3257/A-New-Way-of-Measuring-Crypto-Exchange-Dominance:-Cold-Wallet-Storage https://www.longhash.com/en/news/3257/A-New-Way-of-Measuring...
- mbesto 5y ago
  I am. What's your point? If you don't think crypto, an anonymous unregulated security, is being manipulated by a small amount of people then I have a bridge to sell you.
  - eindiran 5y ago
    I think that OP's point was likely that many of these wallets are actually cold wallets for exchanges and institutions, rather than individual whales. The article's definition of whales is pretty loose anyway: "individuals who hold their assets in digital wallets and not on an exchange".
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

tim333 5y ago

>What do I need a stock broker for? You still have that stuff with crypto, just crypto exchanges not stock exchanges. >What do I need a bank for? Banks do two main things - taking savings and lend that out as mortgages. Crypto has been no good at part two. Basically most financial services would still exist if in modified form.

bingbong70 5y ago
P2P loans already exist and are only becoming more competitive as the market grows. This (Bitcoin) will cause a complete disruption of the financial system given enough time.