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> Wait until you hear about cash. anecdote time: I once travelled to Vietnam for a vacation, people in vietnam prefer $100 bills because they're easier to use

> Wait until you hear about cash. anecdote time: I once travelled to Vietnam for a vacation, people in vietnam prefer $100 bills because they're easier to use for hiding wealth, transporting cross border, and other slightly less than legal reasons. Additionally it's the preferred currency of criminals in the country too (so I heard). They will even pay higher exchange rates for ones in better condition or with more anti-counterfeiting features So yeah, USD is used for a lot of crime globally. EDIT: changed "anti-moneylaundering" to "anti-counterfeiting" by suggestion

asah 6y ago
"with more anti-laundering features" ? did you mean anti-counterfeiting? just checking...
- maerF0x0 6y ago
  I think so. Basically things to make it harder to fake them. Changed original post
retrac 6y ago
In Canada, organized crime holds on to the $1000 notes. They're the largest value banknote commonly used in the West in the last few decades. They were last issued in 1992 and then officially withdrawn in 2000 for concerns over moneylaundering. They're not legal tender anymore, but can be exchanged at the bank. There's about $1 billion in circulation, and that will likely remain true for a long time yet. They move in a closed loop in the drug trade, stuffed in briefcases and in safes of criminals who effectively act as banks settling debts. No one wants to cash them because of the risk of being traced, but because they can be cashed in theory, they retain full value. The €500 is slowly displacing them, in Canada and abroad. I saw one as a child. Most Canadians have not, as far as I know. An acquaintance of a friend of my father's had several, and my father was interested in numismatics, so he traded one for $100s. The implications of the man who had some "pinkies" (called so for their colour) being a biker with a facial scar didn't click into place until I was much older.
- tonfa 6y ago
  CHF still has 1k banknote (and with negative interest rates this with a safe might be a better option than a bank account).
  - noxer 6y ago
    Hows that better than a bank account? You can hold CHF on a bank account as well and it keeps the same value as the note. (both lose value due to inflation) Also dont forget insurance for banknotes in a safe.
    - bellyfullofbac 6y ago
      > Hows that better than a bank account? GP said it, negative interest rate, i.e. the bank charging you to hold on to your money when you have more than a certain amount (was it 100k or 25k CHF). So if you put in 100k in the bank and wait a year, you'll be able to withdraw maybe 99.8k CHF. If you hoard 100x 1000 CHF notes, you'll still have 100k CHF. Sure in 1 year those 100k CHF will probably buy less Big Macs then the present, but the 200 CHF loss will mean even less Big Macs.
      - noxer 6y ago
        Its meaningless, if someone puts over 100k on a bank account where inflation eats it away they probably dont care about interest rates and its just a fraction of someone holdings that is deposited at super low risk/high availability. This only makes sense if you have way more and the rest is actually invested and grows. Storing you whole savings like that is rather stupid regardless of if you reach the limit and pay interest rates or not. and putting it as banknotes in a safe is similar stupid potentially even more stupid because there is real chance you physically lose it all.
        bellyfullofbac 6y ago
        Yes there are saner things to do with 100k, but GP was just comparing the 2 options, and you asked "Hows that better than a bank account?" and I answered...
puranjay 6y ago
In Uzbekistan, I saw a disproportionately large number of people with gold teeth. When I asked my host about it, he said that that was the older Soviet-era generation that would get gold teeth so that they could carry some useful wealth with them in case they had to flee their homes all of a sudden.
BobbyJo 6y ago
If the sum total of the wealth you are trying to hide is a in the thousands, you aren't who the government is concerned about. At least, not enough for policy changes. So, while cash is likely far more prevalently use in crime, you're talking about the huge long tail of low level drug dealers and smugglers, not the oligarchs and money launderers. Deposited/electronic money tends to be necessary when you hit a million plus. At that point cash sucks and is super risky to hold.
- maerF0x0 6y ago
  fun fact, each bill is 1g. So $1M in 100s is 10KG (or 22LBs) . Plus the briefcase and hand cuffs if we're going movie style.
nerfhammer 6y ago
they prefer USD in parts in SE Asia because the local currency has experienced hyperinflation in the past. the problem is there is no easy way for them to exchange overly worn bills back to the Federal Reserve, so they have like rotting old falling-apart $1 bills that look like they're on the verge of disintegrating.
Salgat 6y ago
That doesn't stop cryptocoins from being the currency of choice for criminals that need completely anonymous digital transactions, which is why they are the standard for the online black market and for ransomware. It's hard to argue of the advantages of cryptocoins while in the same breathe arguing that cash is better for crime. The bigger issue is that very few people want to hold onto cryptocoins if their goal is to spend the money. You can't really buy much directly with cryptocoins in comparison to cash which is universal. I can't use it at Walmart, I can't use it at McDonalds, I can't use it to buy a house, I can't use it damn near anywhere. The only way I can use it is through a scheme that converts it to cash first. No criminal wants to add that papertrail step to their operations.

asah 6y ago

"with more anti-laundering features" ? did you mean anti-counterfeiting? just checking...

maerF0x0 6y ago
I think so. Basically things to make it harder to fake them. Changed original post

retrac 6y ago

In Canada, organized crime holds on to the $1000 notes. They're the largest value banknote commonly used in the West in the last few decades. They were last issued in 1992 and then officially withdrawn in 2000 for concerns over moneylaundering. They're not legal tender anymore, but can be exchanged at the bank. There's about $1 billion in circulation, and that will likely remain true for a long time yet. They move in a closed loop in the drug trade, stuffed in briefcases and in safes of criminals who effectively act as banks settling debts. No one wants to cash them because of the risk of being traced, but because they can be cashed in theory, they retain full value. The €500 is slowly displacing them, in Canada and abroad. I saw one as a child. Most Canadians have not, as far as I know. An acquaintance of a friend of my father's had several, and my father was interested in numismatics, so he traded one for $100s. The implications of the man who had some "pinkies" (called so for their colour) being a biker with a facial scar didn't click into place until I was much older.

tonfa 6y ago
CHF still has 1k banknote (and with negative interest rates this with a safe might be a better option than a bank account).
- noxer 6y ago
  Hows that better than a bank account? You can hold CHF on a bank account as well and it keeps the same value as the note. (both lose value due to inflation) Also dont forget insurance for banknotes in a safe.
  - bellyfullofbac 6y ago
    > Hows that better than a bank account? GP said it, negative interest rate, i.e. the bank charging you to hold on to your money when you have more than a certain amount (was it 100k or 25k CHF). So if you put in 100k in the bank and wait a year, you'll be able to withdraw maybe 99.8k CHF. If you hoard 100x 1000 CHF notes, you'll still have 100k CHF. Sure in 1 year those 100k CHF will probably buy less Big Macs then the present, but the 200 CHF loss will mean even less Big Macs.
    - noxer 6y ago
      Its meaningless, if someone puts over 100k on a bank account where inflation eats it away they probably dont care about interest rates and its just a fraction of someone holdings that is deposited at super low risk/high availability. This only makes sense if you have way more and the rest is actually invested and grows. Storing you whole savings like that is rather stupid regardless of if you reach the limit and pay interest rates or not. and putting it as banknotes in a safe is similar stupid potentially even more stupid because there is real chance you physically lose it all.
      - bellyfullofbac 6y ago
        Yes there are saner things to do with 100k, but GP was just comparing the 2 options, and you asked "Hows that better than a bank account?" and I answered...

puranjay 6y ago

In Uzbekistan, I saw a disproportionately large number of people with gold teeth. When I asked my host about it, he said that that was the older Soviet-era generation that would get gold teeth so that they could carry some useful wealth with them in case they had to flee their homes all of a sudden.

BobbyJo 6y ago

If the sum total of the wealth you are trying to hide is a in the thousands, you aren't who the government is concerned about. At least, not enough for policy changes. So, while cash is likely far more prevalently use in crime, you're talking about the huge long tail of low level drug dealers and smugglers, not the oligarchs and money launderers. Deposited/electronic money tends to be necessary when you hit a million plus. At that point cash sucks and is super risky to hold.

maerF0x0 6y ago
fun fact, each bill is 1g. So $1M in 100s is 10KG (or 22LBs) . Plus the briefcase and hand cuffs if we're going movie style.

nerfhammer 6y ago

they prefer USD in parts in SE Asia because the local currency has experienced hyperinflation in the past. the problem is there is no easy way for them to exchange overly worn bills back to the Federal Reserve, so they have like rotting old falling-apart $1 bills that look like they're on the verge of disintegrating.

Salgat 6y ago

That doesn't stop cryptocoins from being the currency of choice for criminals that need completely anonymous digital transactions, which is why they are the standard for the online black market and for ransomware. It's hard to argue of the advantages of cryptocoins while in the same breathe arguing that cash is better for crime. The bigger issue is that very few people want to hold onto cryptocoins if their goal is to spend the money. You can't really buy much directly with cryptocoins in comparison to cash which is universal. I can't use it at Walmart, I can't use it at McDonalds, I can't use it to buy a house, I can't use it damn near anywhere. The only way I can use it is through a scheme that converts it to cash first. No criminal wants to add that papertrail step to their operations.