3 ms·

> 2000sqft, still 3-4 bedroom, 4000-8000sqft lot, 2-car garage if you're fortunate In what way is this not "comfortable"? What is your definition of "comfortab

> 2000sqft, still 3-4 bedroom, 4000-8000sqft lot, 2-car garage if you're fortunate In what way is this not "comfortable"? What is your definition of "comfortable"? Like, I grew up in a 3BR, 2 car garage house that was <2000 SqFt. It was absolutely "comfortable". I had friends who were lower income who had smaller houses who were comfortable. You're describing an inflated, luxury lifestyle. You even sort of admit it when you say "very comfortable lifestyle for most people in tech". That's not "very comfortable", that's "very comfortable for people who are already very comfortable". I feel like this is a sort of keeping up with the joneses thing: comfortable implies "more comfortable than the median person in your social circle, where your social circle is all tech people with 400K a year or more household incomes". Like another way of putting this is that a 400K income should allow you to afford a nice 3-BR rental and kids and save money. If you don't have kids, 400K allows you to keep a luxury apartment in SF and another one in the south bay, you know, if you want to do that.

jkubicek 6y ago
> You're describing an inflated, luxury lifestyle. Exactly. I consider a "comfortable" lifestyle to be a 3BR house in a safe neighborhood, 2 reliable cars, 2 week+ domestic vacations/year, plus saving enough to give a nice cushion in case of emergencies / retirement. I'm terrible with budgeting / saving and I was doing this working for a startup on a $120k/year salary. Granted, this was 10 years ago and housing has appreciated significantly since then, but still. $200k would be more than enough to enjoy this sort of comfortable lifestyle.
- bradlys 6y ago
  Sorry, $200k isn't enough. You won't get the house. I know because I've applied. No landlord is renting out homes to single income in the peninsula at $200k/yr. $400k at FAANG - yes (they're all afraid of people losing their jobs at startups and lots of FAANG out there to rent them homes up). But, again, we're talking about "very comfortable" - not comfortable. Not okay. Not "I managed". Very comfortable - something people actually want, not just live with. And I don't put renting in the "very comfortable" category. Nor do I put "reliable" cars or domestic vacations. Safe neighborhood? It's expensive - $2m expensive. Do you have any real insight to the CURRENT housing market in the SF Bay Area? Housing is the big cost. It's more expensive to have a garage for a Porsche than the Porsche itself. I can literally go out tomorrow and buy a 911 but CANNOT afford to put it in a garage. That's how fucking ridiculous it is.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    I'm just curious, why do people choose to put themselves in that environment? I'm mean, based o the cost of living one could move to practically anywhere else (excluding about five areas) in the US and have this "very comfortable" lifestyle on $100k-150k.
    - bradlys 6y ago
      Because you aren’t surrounded by peers. Some of us have lived in other areas and don’t want to go back for good reasons. People in other areas have jobs. People in SV have careers. Many more reasons to list. Average education among my peers is obscenely high (a bachelors is seen as being undereducated - masters is average with PhD being very common). The area isn’t that bad except for COL. Once you’re rich, it isn’t that bad. So, just get rich. That’s the basics of it. It sucks but at least there is a solution for those that are ambitious enough. Can’t fix bad weather or jobs.
      - giantg2 6y ago
        There are some companies on the east coast that want mostly PhDs. I have a Masters, but that's really nothing. I feel like degrees don't really mean much. They just show you put in your time (and money) and have at least half a brain. I've also seen highly educated people who aren't very good at independent thought. "People in other areas have jobs. People in SV have careers." This seems a little over generalized and even pompous. There are plenty of people who have careers in other areas. Just as a single example, how about the financial developers in NYC, like at Jane Street? There are plenty of people who leave SV too.
        bradlys 6y ago
        It's a general sentiment. People here keep nitpicking about the generality of statements I'm making. They're not getting the general vibe and the general vibe is the point. Just because you can cherrypick some data that says there are people with careers or people with PhDs in some other area does not mean that it is like SV. Surely you understand that? Who the fuck would move here when homes are $2-3m? People who are dedicated. That's the difference. People talk about leaving the bay area to slow down or give up careers. They don't talk about leaving the bay area to start the next big thing. (Regardless of all the BS you see about X cheap-ass company moving to Y city)

jkubicek 6y ago

> You're describing an inflated, luxury lifestyle. Exactly. I consider a "comfortable" lifestyle to be a 3BR house in a safe neighborhood, 2 reliable cars, 2 week+ domestic vacations/year, plus saving enough to give a nice cushion in case of emergencies / retirement. I'm terrible with budgeting / saving and I was doing this working for a startup on a $120k/year salary. Granted, this was 10 years ago and housing has appreciated significantly since then, but still. $200k would be more than enough to enjoy this sort of comfortable lifestyle.

bradlys 6y ago
Sorry, $200k isn't enough. You won't get the house. I know because I've applied. No landlord is renting out homes to single income in the peninsula at $200k/yr. $400k at FAANG - yes (they're all afraid of people losing their jobs at startups and lots of FAANG out there to rent them homes up). But, again, we're talking about "very comfortable" - not comfortable. Not okay. Not "I managed". Very comfortable - something people actually want, not just live with. And I don't put renting in the "very comfortable" category. Nor do I put "reliable" cars or domestic vacations. Safe neighborhood? It's expensive - $2m expensive. Do you have any real insight to the CURRENT housing market in the SF Bay Area? Housing is the big cost. It's more expensive to have a garage for a Porsche than the Porsche itself. I can literally go out tomorrow and buy a 911 but CANNOT afford to put it in a garage. That's how fucking ridiculous it is.
- giantg2 6y ago
  I'm just curious, why do people choose to put themselves in that environment? I'm mean, based o the cost of living one could move to practically anywhere else (excluding about five areas) in the US and have this "very comfortable" lifestyle on $100k-150k.
  - bradlys 6y ago
    Because you aren’t surrounded by peers. Some of us have lived in other areas and don’t want to go back for good reasons. People in other areas have jobs. People in SV have careers. Many more reasons to list. Average education among my peers is obscenely high (a bachelors is seen as being undereducated - masters is average with PhD being very common). The area isn’t that bad except for COL. Once you’re rich, it isn’t that bad. So, just get rich. That’s the basics of it. It sucks but at least there is a solution for those that are ambitious enough. Can’t fix bad weather or jobs.
    - giantg2 6y ago
      There are some companies on the east coast that want mostly PhDs. I have a Masters, but that's really nothing. I feel like degrees don't really mean much. They just show you put in your time (and money) and have at least half a brain. I've also seen highly educated people who aren't very good at independent thought. "People in other areas have jobs. People in SV have careers." This seems a little over generalized and even pompous. There are plenty of people who have careers in other areas. Just as a single example, how about the financial developers in NYC, like at Jane Street? There are plenty of people who leave SV too.
      - bradlys 6y ago
        It's a general sentiment. People here keep nitpicking about the generality of statements I'm making. They're not getting the general vibe and the general vibe is the point. Just because you can cherrypick some data that says there are people with careers or people with PhDs in some other area does not mean that it is like SV. Surely you understand that? Who the fuck would move here when homes are $2-3m? People who are dedicated. That's the difference. People talk about leaving the bay area to slow down or give up careers. They don't talk about leaving the bay area to start the next big thing. (Regardless of all the BS you see about X cheap-ass company moving to Y city)