4 ms·

Accounts that act poorly, usually do so in multiple ways. Banning accounts for bad behavior will likely curb other undetectable bad behavior. HN is a bit uni

Accounts that act poorly, usually do so in multiple ways. Banning accounts for bad behavior will likely curb other undetectable bad behavior. HN is a bit unique. I suspect it is less influenced by bad behavior because it is small enough to fly under the radar.

simion314 6y ago
You would think so because is hard to notice, I would not have believed it until I seen it with my own eyes, it was an article about RMS and there was a good discussion in the comments , in 5-10 minutes the entry was gone from the first pages, it was flagged, I think there were around 2-- comments in the end but most readers missed the article and instead they could see more then one day old stuff. My proposal is to have people do a bit of work not just click a button, write an intelligent argument, it would at least filter the lazy ones out. It is similar when you know someone will review your code you double check your commit first and clean things up, someone might decide that the reason might not be as defendable so maybe a discussion should happen on this topic .
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  People started flagging anything about Stallman because there were over 100 submissions in 2 weeks.[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26713636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26713636
  - simion314 6y ago
    Yeah, but if feels not right , people should use the down vote button , then if the majority pressed down then up then is clearly something it should not be discussed. It is not right that a small number of individuals could hide something, because there is not an equivalent mechanism for a similar number of people to un-flag it. There were different articles about RMS, so why an article that has Red Hat in it's name should stay and other that has an author less prestigious should be hidden, I mean let the community decide, we always repeat ourselves in comments when we talk about latest Apple,Facebook or Google shit so if the users upvote and discuss something then don't fucking hide it, it means it is on topic, the nes that don't want to engage can skip the article or downvote it and upvote soem other article instead that is more interesting.
    - jcranmer 6y ago
      You can't downvote articles; you can only flag them [if you want to express disapproval].
      - fsflover 6y ago
        You can also hide them. Flagging means something serious.
      - simion314 6y ago
        Yeah, I was confused, we can't downvote. IMO flag should only be used for offtopic or content that is against side rules. I nenver flagged any submission, even if I think is offtopic or low quality, I can ignore it, maybe the people that engaged it have other opinion so why I should decide for others what should they see on the home page. My proposal might not be better , so I admit I can be wrong and I let the HN stuff to do their job how they think is best, just wanted to tell my opinion that even here stuff might be hidden for you because a small number of people decided it.
        pseudalopex 6y ago
        All submissions compete for attention. Voting and commenting influence what submissions other people see too.
        simion314 6y ago
        I know but from my observations all the up-votes and comments can't undo a few flags. Maybe there should be a way so if same number of people contest the flags then it undoes it? At least I think is not fair to use flag on an item I think it should get less attention, then I should flag all posts about the frameworks or languages that I think are getting too much attention (I do not flag and very rare downvote )
        pseudalopex 6y ago
        How did you observe the number of flags? dang seemed to endorse flagging repetition and flame war. I don't know what to tell you if you interpret that as just too much attention.
  - wrycoder 6y ago
    1. If you just downvote, the article will fall off the front page quickly enough. 2. If you disagree with a flag, then hit the “vouch” button and resurrect it.
GuB-42 6y ago
HN has a system where submissions get flagged and possibly downranked if the number of comments exceeds its score as it is indicative of a flame war. It is the opposite of what social media that optimize for "engagement" do. The HN community also has a habit of downranking controversial topics. For example, subjects like women in tech and racism tend to get buried quickly. It is not that these are not worth talking about, but I think keeping these out help a great deal at preventing bad behavior to emerge. For me, it is a win, and it is not like places where you can talk politics are lacking on the net.
- simion314 6y ago
  I prefer forums with clear rules, and if something is flagged then it should be only if is against a specific rule. I am not sure if is more preferable to debate the merit of yet another incomplete Tic-Tac-Toe in Rust then having a pasionate debate on app stores, free software or X. Blame wars should be fixed differently IMO, you could temporary ban accounts that do not respect the rules, users can report comments and indicate the rule that is broken, this require better moderation and clear rules. Though, I am not sure if HN could implement this, is too big and probably mi preferences work better on smaller niche forums with a few good moderators and a community that cares about the quality and pushes the participants to communicate in the allowed rules.

simion314 6y ago

You would think so because is hard to notice, I would not have believed it until I seen it with my own eyes, it was an article about RMS and there was a good discussion in the comments , in 5-10 minutes the entry was gone from the first pages, it was flagged, I think there were around 2-- comments in the end but most readers missed the article and instead they could see more then one day old stuff. My proposal is to have people do a bit of work not just click a button, write an intelligent argument, it would at least filter the lazy ones out. It is similar when you know someone will review your code you double check your commit first and clean things up, someone might decide that the reason might not be as defendable so maybe a discussion should happen on this topic .

pseudalopex 6y ago
People started flagging anything about Stallman because there were over 100 submissions in 2 weeks.[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26713636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26713636
- simion314 6y ago
  Yeah, but if feels not right , people should use the down vote button , then if the majority pressed down then up then is clearly something it should not be discussed. It is not right that a small number of individuals could hide something, because there is not an equivalent mechanism for a similar number of people to un-flag it. There were different articles about RMS, so why an article that has Red Hat in it's name should stay and other that has an author less prestigious should be hidden, I mean let the community decide, we always repeat ourselves in comments when we talk about latest Apple,Facebook or Google shit so if the users upvote and discuss something then don't fucking hide it, it means it is on topic, the nes that don't want to engage can skip the article or downvote it and upvote soem other article instead that is more interesting.
  - jcranmer 6y ago
    You can't downvote articles; you can only flag them [if you want to express disapproval].
    - fsflover 6y ago
      You can also hide them. Flagging means something serious.
    - simion314 6y ago
      Yeah, I was confused, we can't downvote. IMO flag should only be used for offtopic or content that is against side rules. I nenver flagged any submission, even if I think is offtopic or low quality, I can ignore it, maybe the people that engaged it have other opinion so why I should decide for others what should they see on the home page. My proposal might not be better , so I admit I can be wrong and I let the HN stuff to do their job how they think is best, just wanted to tell my opinion that even here stuff might be hidden for you because a small number of people decided it.
      - pseudalopex 6y ago
        All submissions compete for attention. Voting and commenting influence what submissions other people see too.
        simion314 6y ago
        I know but from my observations all the up-votes and comments can't undo a few flags. Maybe there should be a way so if same number of people contest the flags then it undoes it? At least I think is not fair to use flag on an item I think it should get less attention, then I should flag all posts about the frameworks or languages that I think are getting too much attention (I do not flag and very rare downvote )
        pseudalopex 6y ago
        How did you observe the number of flags? dang seemed to endorse flagging repetition and flame war. I don't know what to tell you if you interpret that as just too much attention.
- wrycoder 6y ago
  1. If you just downvote, the article will fall off the front page quickly enough. 2. If you disagree with a flag, then hit the “vouch” button and resurrect it.

GuB-42 6y ago

HN has a system where submissions get flagged and possibly downranked if the number of comments exceeds its score as it is indicative of a flame war. It is the opposite of what social media that optimize for "engagement" do. The HN community also has a habit of downranking controversial topics. For example, subjects like women in tech and racism tend to get buried quickly. It is not that these are not worth talking about, but I think keeping these out help a great deal at preventing bad behavior to emerge. For me, it is a win, and it is not like places where you can talk politics are lacking on the net.

simion314 6y ago
I prefer forums with clear rules, and if something is flagged then it should be only if is against a specific rule. I am not sure if is more preferable to debate the merit of yet another incomplete Tic-Tac-Toe in Rust then having a pasionate debate on app stores, free software or X. Blame wars should be fixed differently IMO, you could temporary ban accounts that do not respect the rules, users can report comments and indicate the rule that is broken, this require better moderation and clear rules. Though, I am not sure if HN could implement this, is too big and probably mi preferences work better on smaller niche forums with a few good moderators and a community that cares about the quality and pushes the participants to communicate in the allowed rules.