6 ms·

Are you comparing the rape of a minor to homosexuality? I would not work with someone who conversed like this in a professional setting. I'm not alone. It's wi

Are you comparing the rape of a minor to homosexuality? I would not work with someone who conversed like this in a professional setting. I'm not alone. It's wildly inappropriate at the very least. It's not his field and he's personally involved with the accused.

NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
"Are you comparing the rape of a minor to homosexuality?" Yes, that's exactly it. Respectable people would have felt the same way about homosexuality 100 years ago as you do about sex involving minors. Further, your characterization as "rape of a minor" is problematic. What's a minor? If one minor is involved, it automatically becomes rape? In much of Europe ages of consent are surprisingly low (14) to Americans, who tend to expect 18. What about a 17 year old and a 19 year old? Two 14 year olds? A 15 year old and a 20 year old? Is what's 100% wrong and prison-bound in the U.S. morally permissible in Spain because the laws are different? Or maybe you have access to the Objective Moral Truths, such that this game is easy for you? If so, do share. It'd make all of this so much easier.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  I would absolutely not work with someone who held these views. Unprofessional, disturbing and illegal.
  - WesolyKubeczek 6y ago
    Why do you even think working with you would be sought after?
  - myrmidon 6y ago
    I'm trying to understand your perspective. Would you be ok with Stallman defending Minsky if the victim had been one year older? Do you think it should be illegal to publicly defend alleged perpetrators/what Stallman did? Would you react more/less strongly if Minsky had been accused of murder, and Stallman pointed out that the crime was potentially assisted suicide? Do you not want to work with Stallman because his moral system is not solid enough to you, or do I misunderstand your position? Would you be willing to work with an ex-convict in general?
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      > Would you be ok with Stallman defending Minsky if the victim had been one year older? No. > Do you think it should be illegal to publicly defend alleged perpetrators/what Stallman did? No, but you should lose your job if you're in a leadership position. > Would you react more/less strongly if Minsky had been accused of murder, and Stallman pointed out that the crime was potentially assisted suicide? No. > Do you not want to work with Stallman because his moral system is not solid enough to you, or do I misunderstand your position? I would not work with him because I find him disgusting. I would not work with anyone who sexualizes the workplace. Infinitely worse when they're arguing in favor of pedophilia. > Would you be willing to work with an ex-convict in general? Depends on the crime, but rape and murder, absolutely not.
- goodpoint 6y ago
  > If one minor is involved, it automatically becomes rape? YES. This is how it works legally, because one person does not have the emotional and intellectual maturity to provide fully informed consent.
  - africanboy 6y ago
    No, it doesn't. What about Japan where age of consent is 13? Or Switzerland were the age of consent is 16, although if the age gap between parties is three years or less – for example between a 13-year-old and a 15-year-old – no charges can be brought
  - concordDance 6y ago
    I really think that lumping forcible rape in the same category as a 17 year old successfuly seducing a 21 year old in California (as opposed to, say, Spain) is bad for discourse. Even if we grant the latter is harmful and wrong, the mechanism via which the harm happens is different, as is the amount of harm.
    - goodpoint 6y ago
      >a 17 year old successfuly seducing a 21 year old Most countries have laws allowing relationships within an age difference of 3 or 4 or 5 years. But some people want to blur the lines around consent claiming that a 15yo can consent to sex with some 45yo without the latter being held responsible. > the mechanism via which the harm happens is different, as is the amount of harm I never argued otherwise. Just like for any other illegal behavior, legal systems are designed take into account the circumstance and impact of an event. But this does not change the initial point about informed consent and rape being rape.
      - concordDance 6y ago
        > But this does not change the initial point about informed consent and rape being rape. I think it does. "Rape being rape" relies on the word having a precise meaning where all things in the category share essential characteristics that allow you to make moral judgements based on category membership. But "rape", like all heavily contested political words with high moral weight, is definitely not such a word. It has a canonical example value (unfortunately I feel I have to be specific here: a stranger dragging a fighting women into the bushes and sticking his penis in her until he cums), but has a range of meanings that varies fairly drastically across conversational contexts (e.g. we talking ethics/morality? Law? Descriptiveness?), geography (e.g. is drunk sex rape? Depends on jurisdiction. What counts as a "minor"?), time and even subcultures.

NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago

"Are you comparing the rape of a minor to homosexuality?" Yes, that's exactly it. Respectable people would have felt the same way about homosexuality 100 years ago as you do about sex involving minors. Further, your characterization as "rape of a minor" is problematic. What's a minor? If one minor is involved, it automatically becomes rape? In much of Europe ages of consent are surprisingly low (14) to Americans, who tend to expect 18. What about a 17 year old and a 19 year old? Two 14 year olds? A 15 year old and a 20 year old? Is what's 100% wrong and prison-bound in the U.S. morally permissible in Spain because the laws are different? Or maybe you have access to the Objective Moral Truths, such that this game is easy for you? If so, do share. It'd make all of this so much easier.

solosoyokaze 6y ago
I would absolutely not work with someone who held these views. Unprofessional, disturbing and illegal.
- WesolyKubeczek 6y ago
  Why do you even think working with you would be sought after?
- myrmidon 6y ago
  I'm trying to understand your perspective. Would you be ok with Stallman defending Minsky if the victim had been one year older? Do you think it should be illegal to publicly defend alleged perpetrators/what Stallman did? Would you react more/less strongly if Minsky had been accused of murder, and Stallman pointed out that the crime was potentially assisted suicide? Do you not want to work with Stallman because his moral system is not solid enough to you, or do I misunderstand your position? Would you be willing to work with an ex-convict in general?
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    > Would you be ok with Stallman defending Minsky if the victim had been one year older? No. > Do you think it should be illegal to publicly defend alleged perpetrators/what Stallman did? No, but you should lose your job if you're in a leadership position. > Would you react more/less strongly if Minsky had been accused of murder, and Stallman pointed out that the crime was potentially assisted suicide? No. > Do you not want to work with Stallman because his moral system is not solid enough to you, or do I misunderstand your position? I would not work with him because I find him disgusting. I would not work with anyone who sexualizes the workplace. Infinitely worse when they're arguing in favor of pedophilia. > Would you be willing to work with an ex-convict in general? Depends on the crime, but rape and murder, absolutely not.
goodpoint 6y ago
> If one minor is involved, it automatically becomes rape? YES. This is how it works legally, because one person does not have the emotional and intellectual maturity to provide fully informed consent.
- africanboy 6y ago
  No, it doesn't. What about Japan where age of consent is 13? Or Switzerland were the age of consent is 16, although if the age gap between parties is three years or less – for example between a 13-year-old and a 15-year-old – no charges can be brought
- concordDance 6y ago
  I really think that lumping forcible rape in the same category as a 17 year old successfuly seducing a 21 year old in California (as opposed to, say, Spain) is bad for discourse. Even if we grant the latter is harmful and wrong, the mechanism via which the harm happens is different, as is the amount of harm.
  - goodpoint 6y ago
    >a 17 year old successfuly seducing a 21 year old Most countries have laws allowing relationships within an age difference of 3 or 4 or 5 years. But some people want to blur the lines around consent claiming that a 15yo can consent to sex with some 45yo without the latter being held responsible. > the mechanism via which the harm happens is different, as is the amount of harm I never argued otherwise. Just like for any other illegal behavior, legal systems are designed take into account the circumstance and impact of an event. But this does not change the initial point about informed consent and rape being rape.
    - concordDance 6y ago
      > But this does not change the initial point about informed consent and rape being rape. I think it does. "Rape being rape" relies on the word having a precise meaning where all things in the category share essential characteristics that allow you to make moral judgements based on category membership. But "rape", like all heavily contested political words with high moral weight, is definitely not such a word. It has a canonical example value (unfortunately I feel I have to be specific here: a stranger dragging a fighting women into the bushes and sticking his penis in her until he cums), but has a range of meanings that varies fairly drastically across conversational contexts (e.g. we talking ethics/morality? Law? Descriptiveness?), geography (e.g. is drunk sex rape? Depends on jurisdiction. What counts as a "minor"?), time and even subcultures.