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That's the reason why many youtubers on patreon switch to a monthly subscription rather than charging per video. It makes it clearer that we are supporting the

by lopis 6y ago

That's the reason why many youtubers on patreon switch to a monthly subscription rather than charging per video. It makes it clearer that we are supporting the creator's livelihood, not buying a token that they produced. Would anyone pay for a Taylor Swift subscription if that meant she could relax and produce music as she sees fit? Higher subscription tiers could include merchandising and concert tickets.

michaelt 6y ago
> Would anyone pay for a Taylor Swift subscription if that meant she could relax and produce music as she sees fit? I have a (completely speculative) theory that the "support the artist to keep creating the work they're giving away for free" model has a ceiling when artists become visibly a lot richer than their fans. After all, what kind of sucker would charitably donate to a multimillionaire's private jet running costs?
- llbeansandrice 6y ago
  That sounds like a feature, not a bug.
- eindiran 6y ago
  Even if this is true, the ceiling is very high. Look at the current top earners on Patreon, with a known per month figure: https://graphtreon.com/top-patreon-creators https://graphtreon.com/top-patreon-creators * Chapo Trap House, 3 hosts - 170k/month * The Tim Dillon Show, 1 host - 121k/month * AdeptusSteve (I couldn't figure out how many people, possibly 1 guy making some sort of porn game?) - 103k/month * Flagrant 2, 2 hosts - 98k/month * Tiny Meat Gang, 2 hosts - 82k/month * Cum Town, 3 hosts - 81k/month Note that the dollar amounts of most of the people on that list aren't visible and I cut them off at 80k/month. People are willingly chipping in to help creators making 1M/year, not including sponsorships, live shows, etc. And there are some multimillionaires that could likely make it work. If the Spotify deal hadn't happened, Joe Rogan almost certainly could have. Unrelated comment about the list: of the Patreon categories, podcasters are predictably over-represented. But I am surprised by the number of "adult games" on the list. I didn't realize how popular these were.
  - BitwiseFool 6y ago
    Part of me finds it ironic that so many leftist podcasts rake in big bucks on Patreon.
    - runarberg 6y ago
      Why? Do socialists not deserve to earn the value of their work?
      - savanaly 6y ago
        It's not that they don't deserve it, it's that it's ironic.
        optimuspaul 6y ago
        it's not ironic if you really understand socialism.
        parineum 6y ago
        Patreon seems like a very libertarian environment to me. I'm not sure how I could see it any differently.
        loopercal 6y ago
        A lot of the original libertarians were...socialists. The term today has been rebranded to mean strictly anarcho-capitalists but it originally included anarcho-communists and libertarian socialists.
        parineum 6y ago
        Well, I'm using the word as it is used today. That doesn't really address my confusion. Patreon is a world were value produced is both determined and rewarded by a free market of consumers choosing where to spend their money. I do find it ironic that a socialists are at the top of the Patreon food chain and yet the comment: > it's not ironic if you really understand socialism. says I shouldn't. I'm looking for someone to explain to me why.
- squeaky-clean 6y ago
  It doesn't have to be pure charity. I was a subscriber to Deadmau5's livestreams back when he was doing that. Monthly subscription and you had access to a private stream that was almost always live when he was producing in the studio. That particular example is boring if you're not into music production, but there are certainly things an artist can do to make a subscription worthwhile. Will it make a superstar artist more money than the usual means? Probably not. But it also doesn't have to include zero rewards.
- pedrosorio 6y ago
  That does not seem to be the case in Twitch, for example. The largest creators just amass larger and larger numbers of subscribers ($5/month) even though it is public knowledge that these people are making >$1M/month in some cases.
- yks 6y ago
  Suckers or not, but people do donate to visibly rich people, e.g. Trump.
  - jkhdigital 6y ago
    Spread the love around: Nancy Pelosi has a net worth of about $120M, and even Joe Biden is worth $9M. Donating to a national political campaign is usually a donation to a rich person.
    - chillwaves 6y ago
      Why are you conflating personal wealth with political campaigns?
- WillDaSilva 6y ago
  I think that would be great. If the artists are being paid enough to support them* and their craft, and they're being paid enough to help motivate others to become artists, then they shouldn't get any more money. That money would be better spent elsewhere. * "support them" would also include leaving them with enough money to retire on after their career, if they live in a country where retirement savings are important to have, or otherwise are a strong motivating factor for those who are considering this as a career.
- TrainedMonkey 6y ago
  That sounds pretty rational, however it does not mesh with reality of most popular streamers getting literally showered with money. There is definitely some rational subset of population that will stop donating once it's clear the artist has made it. My theory is that when you give money to someone it's a commitment that you like them. And once you like them, you are more likely to contribute more money. I'd wager for top artist this effect will dominate the rational people curbing donations effect.
- TheRealDunkirk 6y ago
  > After all, what kind of sucker would charitably donate to a multimillionaire's private jet running costs? Millions of people currently support many televangelists in precisely this way, so this isn't rhetorical.
- 20after4 6y ago
  Plenty of people send money to televangelists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg
stuart78 6y ago
Bandcamp offers a subscription service [0] for just this purpose. I've thought about it for one or two, and $5/mo or whatever doesn't sound much, but it pretty quickly adds up across music, newsletters, patreons, etc... i need an aggregator for paying all of my content aggregators. [0] https://bandcamp.com/subscriptions https://bandcamp.com/subscriptions
TylerE 6y ago
Neil Young has done pretty much exactly that. https://neilyoungarchives.com/ https://neilyoungarchives.com/
chihuahua 6y ago
I think with an estimated net worth of $360,000,000 Taylor Swift could just relax and produce music as she sees fit, without any need for subscriptions.
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
> That's the reason why many youtubers on patreon switch to a monthly subscription rather than charging per video. Well, that or it’s just more user friendly. It’s hard to plan my finances if I don’t know how much I’ll be paying (since I don’t know, and have no control over, how many creations someone will make next month).

by lopis 6y ago

michaelt 6y ago

> Would anyone pay for a Taylor Swift subscription if that meant she could relax and produce music as she sees fit? I have a (completely speculative) theory that the "support the artist to keep creating the work they're giving away for free" model has a ceiling when artists become visibly a lot richer than their fans. After all, what kind of sucker would charitably donate to a multimillionaire's private jet running costs?

llbeansandrice 6y ago
That sounds like a feature, not a bug.
eindiran 6y ago
Even if this is true, the ceiling is very high. Look at the current top earners on Patreon, with a known per month figure: https://graphtreon.com/top-patreon-creators https://graphtreon.com/top-patreon-creators * Chapo Trap House, 3 hosts - 170k/month * The Tim Dillon Show, 1 host - 121k/month * AdeptusSteve (I couldn't figure out how many people, possibly 1 guy making some sort of porn game?) - 103k/month * Flagrant 2, 2 hosts - 98k/month * Tiny Meat Gang, 2 hosts - 82k/month * Cum Town, 3 hosts - 81k/month Note that the dollar amounts of most of the people on that list aren't visible and I cut them off at 80k/month. People are willingly chipping in to help creators making 1M/year, not including sponsorships, live shows, etc. And there are some multimillionaires that could likely make it work. If the Spotify deal hadn't happened, Joe Rogan almost certainly could have. Unrelated comment about the list: of the Patreon categories, podcasters are predictably over-represented. But I am surprised by the number of "adult games" on the list. I didn't realize how popular these were.
- BitwiseFool 6y ago
  Part of me finds it ironic that so many leftist podcasts rake in big bucks on Patreon.
  - runarberg 6y ago
    Why? Do socialists not deserve to earn the value of their work?
    - savanaly 6y ago
      It's not that they don't deserve it, it's that it's ironic.
      - optimuspaul 6y ago
        it's not ironic if you really understand socialism.
        parineum 6y ago
        Patreon seems like a very libertarian environment to me. I'm not sure how I could see it any differently.
        loopercal 6y ago
        A lot of the original libertarians were...socialists. The term today has been rebranded to mean strictly anarcho-capitalists but it originally included anarcho-communists and libertarian socialists.
        parineum 6y ago
        Well, I'm using the word as it is used today. That doesn't really address my confusion. Patreon is a world were value produced is both determined and rewarded by a free market of consumers choosing where to spend their money. I do find it ironic that a socialists are at the top of the Patreon food chain and yet the comment: > it's not ironic if you really understand socialism. says I shouldn't. I'm looking for someone to explain to me why.
squeaky-clean 6y ago
It doesn't have to be pure charity. I was a subscriber to Deadmau5's livestreams back when he was doing that. Monthly subscription and you had access to a private stream that was almost always live when he was producing in the studio. That particular example is boring if you're not into music production, but there are certainly things an artist can do to make a subscription worthwhile. Will it make a superstar artist more money than the usual means? Probably not. But it also doesn't have to include zero rewards.
pedrosorio 6y ago
That does not seem to be the case in Twitch, for example. The largest creators just amass larger and larger numbers of subscribers ($5/month) even though it is public knowledge that these people are making >$1M/month in some cases.
yks 6y ago
Suckers or not, but people do donate to visibly rich people, e.g. Trump.
- jkhdigital 6y ago
  Spread the love around: Nancy Pelosi has a net worth of about $120M, and even Joe Biden is worth $9M. Donating to a national political campaign is usually a donation to a rich person.
  - chillwaves 6y ago
    Why are you conflating personal wealth with political campaigns?
WillDaSilva 6y ago
I think that would be great. If the artists are being paid enough to support them* and their craft, and they're being paid enough to help motivate others to become artists, then they shouldn't get any more money. That money would be better spent elsewhere. * "support them" would also include leaving them with enough money to retire on after their career, if they live in a country where retirement savings are important to have, or otherwise are a strong motivating factor for those who are considering this as a career.
TrainedMonkey 6y ago
That sounds pretty rational, however it does not mesh with reality of most popular streamers getting literally showered with money. There is definitely some rational subset of population that will stop donating once it's clear the artist has made it. My theory is that when you give money to someone it's a commitment that you like them. And once you like them, you are more likely to contribute more money. I'd wager for top artist this effect will dominate the rational people curbing donations effect.
TheRealDunkirk 6y ago
> After all, what kind of sucker would charitably donate to a multimillionaire's private jet running costs? Millions of people currently support many televangelists in precisely this way, so this isn't rhetorical.
20after4 6y ago
Plenty of people send money to televangelists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

stuart78 6y ago

Bandcamp offers a subscription service [0] for just this purpose. I've thought about it for one or two, and $5/mo or whatever doesn't sound much, but it pretty quickly adds up across music, newsletters, patreons, etc... i need an aggregator for paying all of my content aggregators. [0] https://bandcamp.com/subscriptions https://bandcamp.com/subscriptions

TylerE 6y ago

Neil Young has done pretty much exactly that. https://neilyoungarchives.com/ https://neilyoungarchives.com/

chihuahua 6y ago

I think with an estimated net worth of $360,000,000 Taylor Swift could just relax and produce music as she sees fit, without any need for subscriptions.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

> That's the reason why many youtubers on patreon switch to a monthly subscription rather than charging per video. Well, that or it’s just more user friendly. It’s hard to plan my finances if I don’t know how much I’ll be paying (since I don’t know, and have no control over, how many creations someone will make next month).