4 ms·

> He wants to have a discussion about what makes sex between people of varying ages wrong. That alone makes him unfit to lead anything (among the many other th

> He wants to have a discussion about what makes sex between people of varying ages wrong. That alone makes him unfit to lead anything (among the many other things he's done). I do not want to hear his opinion on this subject.

NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
No, it doesn't make him unfit. It makes him curious and open-minded. How are we as a society supposed to come to conclusions about ethical issues without examining them? If we adopted your stance, nothing would ever change. Conservatives like you would have had the exact same stance on homosexuality 100 years ago: "Zomg no, it's so terrible we won't even consider talking about it except to condemn, and we'll punish people who do try to have an honest conversation". I say this as a person who also is a conservative with respect to statutory rape laws.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  Are you comparing the rape of a minor to homosexuality? I would not work with someone who conversed like this in a professional setting. I'm not alone. It's wildly inappropriate at the very least. It's not his field and he's personally involved with the accused.
  - NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
    "Are you comparing the rape of a minor to homosexuality?" Yes, that's exactly it. Respectable people would have felt the same way about homosexuality 100 years ago as you do about sex involving minors. Further, your characterization as "rape of a minor" is problematic. What's a minor? If one minor is involved, it automatically becomes rape? In much of Europe ages of consent are surprisingly low (14) to Americans, who tend to expect 18. What about a 17 year old and a 19 year old? Two 14 year olds? A 15 year old and a 20 year old? Is what's 100% wrong and prison-bound in the U.S. morally permissible in Spain because the laws are different? Or maybe you have access to the Objective Moral Truths, such that this game is easy for you? If so, do share. It'd make all of this so much easier.
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      I would absolutely not work with someone who held these views. Unprofessional, disturbing and illegal.
      - WesolyKubeczek 6y ago
        Why do you even think working with you would be sought after?
      - myrmidon 6y ago
        I'm trying to understand your perspective. Would you be ok with Stallman defending Minsky if the victim had been one year older? Do you think it should be illegal to publicly defend alleged perpetrators/what Stallman did? Would you react more/less strongly if Minsky had been accused of murder, and Stallman pointed out that the crime was potentially assisted suicide? Do you not want to work with Stallman because his moral system is not solid enough to you, or do I misunderstand your position? Would you be willing to work with an ex-convict in general?
        solosoyokaze 6y ago
        > Would you be ok with Stallman defending Minsky if the victim had been one year older? No. > Do you think it should be illegal to publicly defend alleged perpetrators/what Stallman did? No, but you should lose your job if you're in a leadership position. > Would you react more/less strongly if Minsky had been accused of murder, and Stallman pointed out that the crime was potentially assisted suicide? No. > Do you not want to work with Stallman because his moral system is not solid enough to you, or do I misunderstand your position? I would not work with him because I find him disgusting. I would not work with anyone who sexualizes the workplace. Infinitely worse when they're arguing in favor of pedophilia. > Would you be willing to work with an ex-convict in general? Depends on the crime, but rape and murder, absolutely not.
    - goodpoint 6y ago
      > If one minor is involved, it automatically becomes rape? YES. This is how it works legally, because one person does not have the emotional and intellectual maturity to provide fully informed consent.
zajio1am 6y ago
So do not read his private webpage (which is full of his personal political opinions). RMS clearly separates his free software-related activities and other personal opinions.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  The OP is on fsf.org.
  - zajio1am 6y ago
    But OP does not contain discussion about sex with minors. That discussion was (in the past) on his personal web stallman.org .
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      Yes it does. It claims the allegations against Minsky are false. That has not been proven and the allegations are highly credible. It's an offensive and stupid thing to say, especially publicly, especially when you're "apologizing".
      - Phelinofist 6y ago
        Innocent until proven guilty? The accusation were neither proven to be true, so what is up with your really flawed reasoning?
        solosoyokaze 6y ago
        The ability to be an effective leader is not a court of law. I'm totally ok calling for someone to step down after they defend statutory rape, in theory and practice (which RMS did both).
      - africanboy 6y ago
        > It claims the allegations against Minsky are false. I don't think he did.

NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago

No, it doesn't make him unfit. It makes him curious and open-minded. How are we as a society supposed to come to conclusions about ethical issues without examining them? If we adopted your stance, nothing would ever change. Conservatives like you would have had the exact same stance on homosexuality 100 years ago: "Zomg no, it's so terrible we won't even consider talking about it except to condemn, and we'll punish people who do try to have an honest conversation". I say this as a person who also is a conservative with respect to statutory rape laws.

solosoyokaze 6y ago
Are you comparing the rape of a minor to homosexuality? I would not work with someone who conversed like this in a professional setting. I'm not alone. It's wildly inappropriate at the very least. It's not his field and he's personally involved with the accused.
- NoImmatureAdHom 6y ago
  "Are you comparing the rape of a minor to homosexuality?" Yes, that's exactly it. Respectable people would have felt the same way about homosexuality 100 years ago as you do about sex involving minors. Further, your characterization as "rape of a minor" is problematic. What's a minor? If one minor is involved, it automatically becomes rape? In much of Europe ages of consent are surprisingly low (14) to Americans, who tend to expect 18. What about a 17 year old and a 19 year old? Two 14 year olds? A 15 year old and a 20 year old? Is what's 100% wrong and prison-bound in the U.S. morally permissible in Spain because the laws are different? Or maybe you have access to the Objective Moral Truths, such that this game is easy for you? If so, do share. It'd make all of this so much easier.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    I would absolutely not work with someone who held these views. Unprofessional, disturbing and illegal.
    - WesolyKubeczek 6y ago
      Why do you even think working with you would be sought after?
    - myrmidon 6y ago
      I'm trying to understand your perspective. Would you be ok with Stallman defending Minsky if the victim had been one year older? Do you think it should be illegal to publicly defend alleged perpetrators/what Stallman did? Would you react more/less strongly if Minsky had been accused of murder, and Stallman pointed out that the crime was potentially assisted suicide? Do you not want to work with Stallman because his moral system is not solid enough to you, or do I misunderstand your position? Would you be willing to work with an ex-convict in general?
      - solosoyokaze 6y ago
        > Would you be ok with Stallman defending Minsky if the victim had been one year older? No. > Do you think it should be illegal to publicly defend alleged perpetrators/what Stallman did? No, but you should lose your job if you're in a leadership position. > Would you react more/less strongly if Minsky had been accused of murder, and Stallman pointed out that the crime was potentially assisted suicide? No. > Do you not want to work with Stallman because his moral system is not solid enough to you, or do I misunderstand your position? I would not work with him because I find him disgusting. I would not work with anyone who sexualizes the workplace. Infinitely worse when they're arguing in favor of pedophilia. > Would you be willing to work with an ex-convict in general? Depends on the crime, but rape and murder, absolutely not.
  - goodpoint 6y ago
    > If one minor is involved, it automatically becomes rape? YES. This is how it works legally, because one person does not have the emotional and intellectual maturity to provide fully informed consent.

zajio1am 6y ago

So do not read his private webpage (which is full of his personal political opinions). RMS clearly separates his free software-related activities and other personal opinions.

solosoyokaze 6y ago
The OP is on fsf.org.
- zajio1am 6y ago
  But OP does not contain discussion about sex with minors. That discussion was (in the past) on his personal web stallman.org .
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    Yes it does. It claims the allegations against Minsky are false. That has not been proven and the allegations are highly credible. It's an offensive and stupid thing to say, especially publicly, especially when you're "apologizing".
    - Phelinofist 6y ago
      Innocent until proven guilty? The accusation were neither proven to be true, so what is up with your really flawed reasoning?
      - solosoyokaze 6y ago
        The ability to be an effective leader is not a court of law. I'm totally ok calling for someone to step down after they defend statutory rape, in theory and practice (which RMS did both).
    - africanboy 6y ago
      > It claims the allegations against Minsky are false. I don't think he did.