4 ms·

> RMS is a statutory rape apologist, and a defender of a pedophile. Wasn't the entire point of his post to refute this interpretation of what happened? Does no

> RMS is a statutory rape apologist, and a defender of a pedophile. Wasn't the entire point of his post to refute this interpretation of what happened? Does no one else notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

visarga 6y ago
No, it's what ideology does to people. It makes us value abstract ideas over real persons. It's all based on ideas of purity and that impure people are somehow deserving of cancellation. If you side with "impure" persons, or even if you don't condemn them strongly enough, you're becoming impure yourself, that is their logic. And for all this interest in purity they don't actually care about the people, their work, their aspirations, only that they obey the ideology.
- imwillofficial 6y ago
  Yes, it is 100% idiology. I think pushing the idea that sex with minors is ok, is morally wrong. I think defending those who victimize others is morally wrong. I think victimizing students that you have influence over with poorly thought out advances is morally wrong. This is my moral opinion on the subject. Infinitely subjective.
  - visarga 6y ago
    You think and you act by taking part in the cancellation game where you got nothing to lose and only to win by pushing others down. How about we judge a person by the totality of his work and actions, not just those which play well in the "game"?
    - imwillofficial 6y ago
      Some people deserve to be canceled. Just because I don’t think most people should be “canceled” doesn’t mean I think nobody should be. RMS is a monster. From the horses mouth: "I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing."
imwillofficial 6y ago
I reject his explanation. Plain and simple. I have read RMS’ own statements I have read firsthand accounts of his victims. I formed my own opinion.
- rvz 6y ago
  So no point in 'apologies' of any sort. Let the cancellations continue and the medieval mob run wild over any letter spoken by this being. Oh dear.
  - imwillofficial 6y ago
    I don’t buy an apology after it blows up in His face when it is behavior that has been demonstrated, tolerated, and covered up for 20+ years.
- d_tr 6y ago
  This text is so exactly what I thought he should write, based on my understanding of him. It is 100% sincere and made me happy.
_-david-_ 6y ago
The person you are responding to is probably not strictly talking about the Minsky/Epstein stuff but adding in Stallman's other statements. "I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing."
- imwillofficial 6y ago
  Correct. Sorry you’re getting downvoted for something I should have made more clear.
- keonix 6y ago
  It was 18 years ago, he changed[0] his views later, but nobody mentions that for some reason... [0] https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September...
  - ebcode 6y ago
    Since a lot of people will read this page, but won't follow the link, I'm posting RMS' quote from your link: > Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong about sex between an adult and a child, if the child accepted it. > Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to understand how sex with a child can harm per psychologically. This changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should not do that. I am grateful for the conversations that enabled me to understand why. I think this quote demonstrates pretty well what kind of person RMS is. He's somewhere on the spectrum (aren't we all), and entirely human. He's grappling with his own beliefs, entertaining possibilities, and actively working to change his beliefs to be a better person. I think so much of the current outrage is really about our society in general, and we're in desperate need of scapegoats because we can't actually target society at large, we can only "target" individuals. That said, I'm just gonna leave this here: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1656/1656-h/1656-h.htm http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1656/1656-h/1656-h.htm

visarga 6y ago

No, it's what ideology does to people. It makes us value abstract ideas over real persons. It's all based on ideas of purity and that impure people are somehow deserving of cancellation. If you side with "impure" persons, or even if you don't condemn them strongly enough, you're becoming impure yourself, that is their logic. And for all this interest in purity they don't actually care about the people, their work, their aspirations, only that they obey the ideology.

imwillofficial 6y ago
Yes, it is 100% idiology. I think pushing the idea that sex with minors is ok, is morally wrong. I think defending those who victimize others is morally wrong. I think victimizing students that you have influence over with poorly thought out advances is morally wrong. This is my moral opinion on the subject. Infinitely subjective.
- visarga 6y ago
  You think and you act by taking part in the cancellation game where you got nothing to lose and only to win by pushing others down. How about we judge a person by the totality of his work and actions, not just those which play well in the "game"?
  - imwillofficial 6y ago
    Some people deserve to be canceled. Just because I don’t think most people should be “canceled” doesn’t mean I think nobody should be. RMS is a monster. From the horses mouth: "I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing."

imwillofficial 6y ago

I reject his explanation. Plain and simple. I have read RMS’ own statements I have read firsthand accounts of his victims. I formed my own opinion.

rvz 6y ago
So no point in 'apologies' of any sort. Let the cancellations continue and the medieval mob run wild over any letter spoken by this being. Oh dear.
- imwillofficial 6y ago
  I don’t buy an apology after it blows up in His face when it is behavior that has been demonstrated, tolerated, and covered up for 20+ years.
d_tr 6y ago
This text is so exactly what I thought he should write, based on my understanding of him. It is 100% sincere and made me happy.

_-david-_ 6y ago

The person you are responding to is probably not strictly talking about the Minsky/Epstein stuff but adding in Stallman's other statements. "I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing."

imwillofficial 6y ago
Correct. Sorry you’re getting downvoted for something I should have made more clear.
keonix 6y ago
It was 18 years ago, he changed[0] his views later, but nobody mentions that for some reason... [0] https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September...
- ebcode 6y ago
  Since a lot of people will read this page, but won't follow the link, I'm posting RMS' quote from your link: > Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong about sex between an adult and a child, if the child accepted it. > Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to understand how sex with a child can harm per psychologically. This changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should not do that. I am grateful for the conversations that enabled me to understand why. I think this quote demonstrates pretty well what kind of person RMS is. He's somewhere on the spectrum (aren't we all), and entirely human. He's grappling with his own beliefs, entertaining possibilities, and actively working to change his beliefs to be a better person. I think so much of the current outrage is really about our society in general, and we're in desperate need of scapegoats because we can't actually target society at large, we can only "target" individuals. That said, I'm just gonna leave this here: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1656/1656-h/1656-h.htm http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1656/1656-h/1656-h.htm