4 ms·

Alas, cancellation is binary. It's akin to bullying: once started things begin to go downhill really quick. There are always enough people willing to raise the

Alas, cancellation is binary. It's akin to bullying: once started things begin to go downhill really quick. There are always enough people willing to raise there self-esteem by kicking a dead lion.

danpalmer 6y ago
I disagree that it's binary. Brendan Eich seems to be doing pretty well running Brave after being "cancelled" for donating for anti-gay-marriage causes. I think people remember that but have mostly let him get on with his life because he a) apologised, and b) no longer runs something as visible as Mozilla.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  Eich didn't apologize. He expressed "sorrow at having caused pain" not remorse for what he did.[1] He wouldn't say he wouldn't do it again.[2] And he argued it wasn't discriminatory since then. I don't think it's even about visibility. People didn't want to have to choose between leaving Mozilla and following Eich. [1] https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ [2] https://www.cnet.com/news/mozilla-ceo-gay-marriage-firestorm-could-hurt-firefox-cause-q-a/ https://www.cnet.com/news/mozilla-ceo-gay-marriage-firestorm...
- cryptoz 6y ago
  I have been anti Eich since I heard about all this. I dis-recommend Brave to everyone I know and will never support another Brendan Eich product again. I'm frequently surprised that the HN crowd largely seems to give him a pass on his hateful opinions towards LGBT people. He's also an anti-masker and thinks a lot of what Dr Fauci says is actually lies. He is not somebody I look up to or see as a leader, especially in recent years. Not sure how to define 'cancelled' globally but I will not support Eich for the future.
  - AlexTWithBeard 6y ago
    It may be a dumb question, but if the product is good, why should I care about personal views of whoever created it? When people go to the market, are they supposed to ask "okay, I see your eggs are free range, but do you guys support gay marriage?"
    - cryptoz 6y ago
      The 'personal views' isn't even what this is about. He has demonstrated severe lack of understanding of the current world - he is spreading hatred and lies about people. He donates his money specifically to causes that actively make oppressed people suffer even further. It's not 'simply' a matter of personal views here. I think he does real, physical damage to the world and I don't personally want to support that. I don't care about your personal views if they are not hateful or actively causing harm to people. But if your 'views' are spreading hatred and also harming people (even killing people by being anti-mask) then I think it's pretty clear that caring about it makes sense. > When people go to the market, are they supposed to ask "okay, I see your eggs are free range, but do you guys support gay marriage?" Obviously we cannot discover everything about everyone we deal with. We have to prioritize and live life, and yes it is awful to accidentally do business with hateful people, I do understand it cannot be avoided fully. We have to live life somehow if we want progress. If it becomes known that the egg people are anti-gay-marriage then certainly I wouldn't buy from them any more.
      - AlexTWithBeard 6y ago
        Do you happen to have details of the story? Looking around I see he has donated $1000 to banning gay marriage. This whole opposition looks kinda dumb to me, but qualifying it as hatred is definitely an overkill.
    - goodpoint 6y ago
      With that phrasing, this is a loaded question. Instead, imagine you are facing court and ask your lawyer: "okay, I see you are a lawyer, but do you make highly controversial statements in public?" This is a legitimate concern. The public credibility of your lawyer affects the outcome. On top of that our "lawyer" RMS walks barefoot in court and wears dirty clothes.

Alas, cancellation is binary. It's akin to bullying: once started things begin to go downhill really quick. There are always enough people willing to raise there self-esteem by kicking a dead lion.

danpalmer 6y ago

I disagree that it's binary. Brendan Eich seems to be doing pretty well running Brave after being "cancelled" for donating for anti-gay-marriage causes. I think people remember that but have mostly let him get on with his life because he a) apologised, and b) no longer runs something as visible as Mozilla.

pseudalopex 6y ago
Eich didn't apologize. He expressed "sorrow at having caused pain" not remorse for what he did.[1] He wouldn't say he wouldn't do it again.[2] And he argued it wasn't discriminatory since then. I don't think it's even about visibility. People didn't want to have to choose between leaving Mozilla and following Eich. [1] https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ [2] https://www.cnet.com/news/mozilla-ceo-gay-marriage-firestorm-could-hurt-firefox-cause-q-a/ https://www.cnet.com/news/mozilla-ceo-gay-marriage-firestorm...
cryptoz 6y ago
I have been anti Eich since I heard about all this. I dis-recommend Brave to everyone I know and will never support another Brendan Eich product again. I'm frequently surprised that the HN crowd largely seems to give him a pass on his hateful opinions towards LGBT people. He's also an anti-masker and thinks a lot of what Dr Fauci says is actually lies. He is not somebody I look up to or see as a leader, especially in recent years. Not sure how to define 'cancelled' globally but I will not support Eich for the future.
- AlexTWithBeard 6y ago
  It may be a dumb question, but if the product is good, why should I care about personal views of whoever created it? When people go to the market, are they supposed to ask "okay, I see your eggs are free range, but do you guys support gay marriage?"
  - cryptoz 6y ago
    The 'personal views' isn't even what this is about. He has demonstrated severe lack of understanding of the current world - he is spreading hatred and lies about people. He donates his money specifically to causes that actively make oppressed people suffer even further. It's not 'simply' a matter of personal views here. I think he does real, physical damage to the world and I don't personally want to support that. I don't care about your personal views if they are not hateful or actively causing harm to people. But if your 'views' are spreading hatred and also harming people (even killing people by being anti-mask) then I think it's pretty clear that caring about it makes sense. > When people go to the market, are they supposed to ask "okay, I see your eggs are free range, but do you guys support gay marriage?" Obviously we cannot discover everything about everyone we deal with. We have to prioritize and live life, and yes it is awful to accidentally do business with hateful people, I do understand it cannot be avoided fully. We have to live life somehow if we want progress. If it becomes known that the egg people are anti-gay-marriage then certainly I wouldn't buy from them any more.
    - AlexTWithBeard 6y ago
      Do you happen to have details of the story? Looking around I see he has donated $1000 to banning gay marriage. This whole opposition looks kinda dumb to me, but qualifying it as hatred is definitely an overkill.
  - goodpoint 6y ago
    With that phrasing, this is a loaded question. Instead, imagine you are facing court and ask your lawyer: "okay, I see you are a lawyer, but do you make highly controversial statements in public?" This is a legitimate concern. The public credibility of your lawyer affects the outcome. On top of that our "lawyer" RMS walks barefoot in court and wears dirty clothes.