9 ms·

Apple gives an OS away for free - users never see advertisements. Microsoft charges $100 for Windows 10, virtually every corner of the experience is riddled wi

Apple gives an OS away for free - users never see advertisements. Microsoft charges $100 for Windows 10, virtually every corner of the experience is riddled with advertisements and marketing crap.

VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
apple doesnt give their os away for free
- whalesalad 6y ago
  I haven't paid for an OS upgrade since Snow Leopard in 2009. For all intents and purposes their OS is free - the consumer does not ever need to worry about upgrade costs.
  - VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
    are you running their os on an apple computer
    - Toutouxc 6y ago
      I don't get the question. You can only run macOS legally on a Mac, there's no other option. And any new-ish (ten years or so) Mac is able to download the latest supported macOS completely for free. So the OS is basically included in the product (just like a washing machine or a car) and upgrades are free.
      - wayneftw 6y ago
        Legally, you can run macOS anywhere you want. Apple cannot and has not stopped anyone from doing that. There is no court of law anywhere which will prevent an end-user from doing what they want with macOS. However, you most certainly are paying for the OS whenever you buy Apple's overpriced hardware. Perhaps the receipt does not state this fact, but we all know that the only way anyone will get macOS is if someone gives Apple money. So, the people giving Apple money are all paying for macOS... And if you're one of those people, you've paid for macOS. Saying that you're not paying for the OS is like saying that you're not paying for solar panels when you sign a 15 year deal with some energy company middle-man. It's like saying that you're not paying the full price of a smartphone when you buy it subsidized from the phone carrier. You actually end up paying more for the solar panels and the smart phone in those cases. In this case, you're most likely paying more for the OS as well. If you want to play games with semantics, anything you want can be true.
        Toutouxc 6y ago
        > Legally, you can run macOS anywhere you want. Apple cannot and has not stopped anyone from doing that. There is no court of law anywhere which will prevent an end-user from doing what they want with macOS. I think you'll quickly find out that's not the case if you, for example, start a macOS VPS hosting company that doesn't use Macs or that lends them for shorter time periods than one day. > Apple's overpriced hardware This meme needs to die, now more than ever (because of Apple Silicon).
        tpxl 6y ago
        >> Apple's overpriced hardware >This meme needs to die, now more than ever (because of Apple Silicon). This meme is relevant more than ever with the butterfly keyboards breaking all over the place.
        wayneftw 6y ago
        > ...for example, start a macOS VPS hosting company that doesn't use Macs or that lends them for shorter time periods than one day. That's not an end-user doing whatever they want, that's a company providing macOS to end-users. End users can do whatever they want. > Apple's overpriced hardware...This meme needs to die, now more than ever (because of Apple Silicon). Apple Silicon has nothing to do with overpriced base systems, SSD/RAM upgrades and overpriced accessories. Everybody knows Apple hardware is overpriced. The fact that you actually get less functionality out of Apple hardware adds to the cost. For instance, I have an old 2012 Mac Pro among many other machines in my home/office. The amount of time, money and effort I had to spend to keep this thing running was ridiculous. I had to buy an RX580 to be able to upgrade it to the latest OS and then I had to spend time researching how to fix their locked down piece of shit UEFI loader so I could boot into a better OS (that would be Manjaro). After that I had to spend hours working around all sorts of little Apple-specific oddities like accessing settings that would be in a BIOS on a better computer. Apple Silicon adds to the cost too because it's incompatible with everything. Now you can do even less stuff with your Mac, but you can do it really fast! Any other PC in the house would have just worked. This one looks cool though and it's built like a tank so I spent my time figuring it out.
agloeregrets 6y ago
I would argue that macOS does have some advertisements , mostly for Apple services, they just tend to be cleaner and better integrated. (Also the free bit is a little fuzzy as the costs are baked into the hardware.) Microsoft is far more guilty however. Imagine how nice Windows 10 would be if Microsoft didn't own Bing, Xbox, and Office.
- anonymousiam 6y ago
  Given how much Microsoft has monetized Windows these days, they could probably give it away free and still make money.
  - nguyenkien 6y ago
    My laptop come with Windows 7. I never pay for Windows 10. And I still get free update in last 5 years.
  - fanatic2pope 6y ago
    At this point they pretty much do. You can download an ISO of Windows 10 Pro, install it and never pay or register it and it will work fine indefinitely with no real restrictions. Last time I tried it, it just prevented setting the background image.
- masklinn 6y ago
  > Also the free bit is a little fuzzy as the costs are baked into the hardware. For well over a decade that didn't make OS X free. I 'member when upgrading OS X meant forking $129.
- blowski 6y ago
  Exactly. Apple Music, Apple Maps, Apple iPhone, Apple Watch, Apple iPad, Apple iCloud, Apple Facetime, Apple TV, etc. I'm pretty sure I see adverts for all these things on my "advert-free" Macbook.
  - Jcowell 6y ago
hnnameblah365 6y ago
If Windows devices started charging Apple prices for hardware, would they now be giving the OS away for free too?
- j0hnml 6y ago
  I mean if you buy a surface book you get windows 10 pro installed and activated, so they’re kinda already doing this
  - _nickwhite 6y ago
    This may be true for Surface Book- an uber-high-end device. But almost any other Surface device you buy through consumer channels has "Windows 10 Home" edition on it. If you want to use it for business to join a domain, you still have to pay the $100 "Microsoft Tax" to upgrade the edition to Pro. The last 20+ Surface devices I've purchased were all this way.
    - zamadatix 6y ago
      You've been ordering the wrong SKU then, look for "Surface Go 2 for Business" as an example (the lowest end Surface) and it comes with Pro for less than the cost of upgrading from the Home version. If you're a Microsoft partner or resell there are also options available for ordering for use with Enterprise volume licensing.
weird-eye-issue 6y ago
For free... Only after you buy their (overpriced) proprietary hardware. Where could I download a copy of their OS, for free, to install on my non-Apple desktop? Okay now do you see why that isn't a fair comparison?
- i_have_an_idea 6y ago
  It's pretty fair. You pay money - you get a product. In Windows, you pay money - you get ads and tracking. edit: To make it clear to people not reading the comment carefully, I'm not saying MacOS is "free". I'm merely saying that once you pay for the computer, the OS is included in the price. And there is no additional monetization under the form of ads or tracking. Unlike in the Windows world, where you pay for the license, yet you are still being tracked and served ads.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    I'm not defending Windows here, but you buy an Apple computer, you get the computer and their software. You can't get either independently without paying for the other, but neither could be considered "free."
  - tester756 6y ago
    > In Windows, you pay money - you get ads and tracking. Where do I have to click to get those ads?
    - zabzonk 6y ago
      Quite - I have been using Windows since Windows 2.0 and I have never seen an ad - perhaps I am doing something wrong?
      - sodality2 6y ago
        You have never had Candy Crush-esque apps installed automatically?
ohgodplsno 6y ago
Something something Apple makes a bit over 40% in margin on $1000+ devices, and growing even higher for their higher priced devices. They can afford to not have advertisements.
zdragnar 6y ago
Apple's EULA prohibits you from installing their OS on anything but their own hardware- so they make their money there. Microsoft trying that would absolutely kill the company- either by lawsuit or people getting up in arms over anti-competitive behavior. They make a small amount every few years when you buy a new computer, and hope you'll also pay for their other software (or give them data, which is tantamount to the same thing).
- supercanuck 6y ago
  > ... so they make their money there. Microsoft, literally, sells Windows 10... for money.
  - zamadatix 6y ago
    Do you say the auto dealership has free gas because new cars come with a full tank? Apple sells MacOS for money just not à la carte.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - zdragnar 6y ago
    Given the upgrade cycle for computers, they are making substantially less (and OEM gets a massive discount over the store shelf price of windows). Since they arent getting a massive markup on very well integrated, mediocre hardware, they need to sell more than just Windows. Office, SharePoint, etc are where the real money is at for them.
tester756 6y ago
I have Windows 10 Pro and I don't see any ads. I don't have win app store / one drive too, removed that on the first day.
- klausjensen 6y ago
  Same for me - but the problem is we have to continue jumping through hoops to hide all the garbage MS is pushing in our face in Windows. Once every x months, I have to install a larger Windows update - which has me click through a bunch of screens AGAIN, having to avoid accepting some kind of ad-pushing nonsense and tracking.
  - tester756 6y ago
    Generally there's a few lines script that disable a lot of stuff like onedrive, app stores, blabla and that's almost all I did when it comes to those things I did it after fresh instal and didn't have to do anything for years. I agree that sometimes there's that privacy settings screen once a few months
- whalesalad 6y ago
  win 10 pro is $200
- d1zzy 6y ago
  I also have Win 10 pro. How have you disabled ads and app store/one drive?
  - tester756 6y ago
    I ran script that uninstalls a lot of those stuff years ago Probably it was this https://gist.github.com/matthewjberger/2f4295887d6cb5738fa34e597f457b7f https://gist.github.com/matthewjberger/2f4295887d6cb5738fa34...
ziml77 6y ago
I've seen ads in the form of notifications. And Apple Music and Apple News tried to guide me to subscribe to those services even though both do have functionality that doesn't require subscribing. Also the OS isn't free. When you buy an Apple computer, you're also purchasing a license to use macOS on that machine.
neogodless 6y ago
As others have pointed out, it's more accurate to say that Apple includes an OS with their hardware. Similarly, Microsoft includes an OS with the hardware they sell, but they also sell the OS to hardware vendors (their customer) or direct to consumer. Now to say "virtually every corner of the experience" seems like a massive overreach. When you first install Windows, or buy hardware with Windows, you are likely to find some advertisements, i.e. programs pre-installed, and start menu tiles that offer other things they want you to install. And there is this obnoxious taskbar notification, which I abhor! It happens once after a major software update. That doesn't cover nearly all corners of the Windows experience, though. It's just two items, and you can uninstall or dismiss the notification and it mostly never shows up again (except next time they release a major update.) About 363 days of the year, I will see zero advertisements in my Windows 10 experience from Microsoft. Now, I'm not saying we give them a pass. We should absolutely be critical of these user hostile moves, but we should describe the experience using accurate terms and phrases.
ccouzens 6y ago
Macs show an advert for iCloud after most large updates. Maybe it doesn't show up if you're signed in. And "search with google" keeps pushing you to safari https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17935301/how-to-force-mac-os-to-open-search-with-google-in-chrome https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17935301/how-to-force-ma...
vbezhenar 6y ago
iOS Music app regularly asks me about Apple Music subscription. Every corner of my Windows 10 experience is not riddled with advertisements. All I have to do is to remove few built-in partner apps after Windows install which I'm doing every few years. You're really exaggerating it. I don't like that Microsoft tries to monetize already sold Windows. But it's not that bad. Open web browser with a typical website and you'll have every corner of the experience riddled with advertisements. That's truly embarrassing.
d1zzy 6y ago
More like $200 if you want Pro (retail) license and still get the same ads. I find it completely unacceptable.

Apple gives an OS away for free - users never see advertisements. Microsoft charges $100 for Windows 10, virtually every corner of the experience is riddled with advertisements and marketing crap.

VWWHFSfQ 6y ago

apple doesnt give their os away for free

whalesalad 6y ago
I haven't paid for an OS upgrade since Snow Leopard in 2009. For all intents and purposes their OS is free - the consumer does not ever need to worry about upgrade costs.
- VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
  are you running their os on an apple computer
  - Toutouxc 6y ago
    I don't get the question. You can only run macOS legally on a Mac, there's no other option. And any new-ish (ten years or so) Mac is able to download the latest supported macOS completely for free. So the OS is basically included in the product (just like a washing machine or a car) and upgrades are free.
    - wayneftw 6y ago
      Legally, you can run macOS anywhere you want. Apple cannot and has not stopped anyone from doing that. There is no court of law anywhere which will prevent an end-user from doing what they want with macOS. However, you most certainly are paying for the OS whenever you buy Apple's overpriced hardware. Perhaps the receipt does not state this fact, but we all know that the only way anyone will get macOS is if someone gives Apple money. So, the people giving Apple money are all paying for macOS... And if you're one of those people, you've paid for macOS. Saying that you're not paying for the OS is like saying that you're not paying for solar panels when you sign a 15 year deal with some energy company middle-man. It's like saying that you're not paying the full price of a smartphone when you buy it subsidized from the phone carrier. You actually end up paying more for the solar panels and the smart phone in those cases. In this case, you're most likely paying more for the OS as well. If you want to play games with semantics, anything you want can be true.
      - Toutouxc 6y ago
        > Legally, you can run macOS anywhere you want. Apple cannot and has not stopped anyone from doing that. There is no court of law anywhere which will prevent an end-user from doing what they want with macOS. I think you'll quickly find out that's not the case if you, for example, start a macOS VPS hosting company that doesn't use Macs or that lends them for shorter time periods than one day. > Apple's overpriced hardware This meme needs to die, now more than ever (because of Apple Silicon).
        tpxl 6y ago
        >> Apple's overpriced hardware >This meme needs to die, now more than ever (because of Apple Silicon). This meme is relevant more than ever with the butterfly keyboards breaking all over the place.
        wayneftw 6y ago
        > ...for example, start a macOS VPS hosting company that doesn't use Macs or that lends them for shorter time periods than one day. That's not an end-user doing whatever they want, that's a company providing macOS to end-users. End users can do whatever they want. > Apple's overpriced hardware...This meme needs to die, now more than ever (because of Apple Silicon). Apple Silicon has nothing to do with overpriced base systems, SSD/RAM upgrades and overpriced accessories. Everybody knows Apple hardware is overpriced. The fact that you actually get less functionality out of Apple hardware adds to the cost. For instance, I have an old 2012 Mac Pro among many other machines in my home/office. The amount of time, money and effort I had to spend to keep this thing running was ridiculous. I had to buy an RX580 to be able to upgrade it to the latest OS and then I had to spend time researching how to fix their locked down piece of shit UEFI loader so I could boot into a better OS (that would be Manjaro). After that I had to spend hours working around all sorts of little Apple-specific oddities like accessing settings that would be in a BIOS on a better computer. Apple Silicon adds to the cost too because it's incompatible with everything. Now you can do even less stuff with your Mac, but you can do it really fast! Any other PC in the house would have just worked. This one looks cool though and it's built like a tank so I spent my time figuring it out.

agloeregrets 6y ago

I would argue that macOS does have some advertisements , mostly for Apple services, they just tend to be cleaner and better integrated. (Also the free bit is a little fuzzy as the costs are baked into the hardware.) Microsoft is far more guilty however. Imagine how nice Windows 10 would be if Microsoft didn't own Bing, Xbox, and Office.

anonymousiam 6y ago
Given how much Microsoft has monetized Windows these days, they could probably give it away free and still make money.
- nguyenkien 6y ago
  My laptop come with Windows 7. I never pay for Windows 10. And I still get free update in last 5 years.
- fanatic2pope 6y ago
  At this point they pretty much do. You can download an ISO of Windows 10 Pro, install it and never pay or register it and it will work fine indefinitely with no real restrictions. Last time I tried it, it just prevented setting the background image.
masklinn 6y ago
> Also the free bit is a little fuzzy as the costs are baked into the hardware. For well over a decade that didn't make OS X free. I 'member when upgrading OS X meant forking $129.
blowski 6y ago
Exactly. Apple Music, Apple Maps, Apple iPhone, Apple Watch, Apple iPad, Apple iCloud, Apple Facetime, Apple TV, etc. I'm pretty sure I see adverts for all these things on my "advert-free" Macbook.
- Jcowell 6y ago

hnnameblah365 6y ago

If Windows devices started charging Apple prices for hardware, would they now be giving the OS away for free too?

j0hnml 6y ago
I mean if you buy a surface book you get windows 10 pro installed and activated, so they’re kinda already doing this
- _nickwhite 6y ago
  This may be true for Surface Book- an uber-high-end device. But almost any other Surface device you buy through consumer channels has "Windows 10 Home" edition on it. If you want to use it for business to join a domain, you still have to pay the $100 "Microsoft Tax" to upgrade the edition to Pro. The last 20+ Surface devices I've purchased were all this way.
  - zamadatix 6y ago
    You've been ordering the wrong SKU then, look for "Surface Go 2 for Business" as an example (the lowest end Surface) and it comes with Pro for less than the cost of upgrading from the Home version. If you're a Microsoft partner or resell there are also options available for ordering for use with Enterprise volume licensing.

weird-eye-issue 6y ago

For free... Only after you buy their (overpriced) proprietary hardware. Where could I download a copy of their OS, for free, to install on my non-Apple desktop? Okay now do you see why that isn't a fair comparison?

i_have_an_idea 6y ago
It's pretty fair. You pay money - you get a product. In Windows, you pay money - you get ads and tracking. edit: To make it clear to people not reading the comment carefully, I'm not saying MacOS is "free". I'm merely saying that once you pay for the computer, the OS is included in the price. And there is no additional monetization under the form of ads or tracking. Unlike in the Windows world, where you pay for the license, yet you are still being tracked and served ads.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  I'm not defending Windows here, but you buy an Apple computer, you get the computer and their software. You can't get either independently without paying for the other, but neither could be considered "free."
- tester756 6y ago
  > In Windows, you pay money - you get ads and tracking. Where do I have to click to get those ads?
  - zabzonk 6y ago
    Quite - I have been using Windows since Windows 2.0 and I have never seen an ad - perhaps I am doing something wrong?
    - sodality2 6y ago
      You have never had Candy Crush-esque apps installed automatically?

ohgodplsno 6y ago

Something something Apple makes a bit over 40% in margin on $1000+ devices, and growing even higher for their higher priced devices. They can afford to not have advertisements.

zdragnar 6y ago

Apple's EULA prohibits you from installing their OS on anything but their own hardware- so they make their money there. Microsoft trying that would absolutely kill the company- either by lawsuit or people getting up in arms over anti-competitive behavior. They make a small amount every few years when you buy a new computer, and hope you'll also pay for their other software (or give them data, which is tantamount to the same thing).

supercanuck 6y ago
> ... so they make their money there. Microsoft, literally, sells Windows 10... for money.
- zamadatix 6y ago
  Do you say the auto dealership has free gas because new cars come with a full tank? Apple sells MacOS for money just not à la carte.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- zdragnar 6y ago
  Given the upgrade cycle for computers, they are making substantially less (and OEM gets a massive discount over the store shelf price of windows). Since they arent getting a massive markup on very well integrated, mediocre hardware, they need to sell more than just Windows. Office, SharePoint, etc are where the real money is at for them.

tester756 6y ago

I have Windows 10 Pro and I don't see any ads. I don't have win app store / one drive too, removed that on the first day.

klausjensen 6y ago
Same for me - but the problem is we have to continue jumping through hoops to hide all the garbage MS is pushing in our face in Windows. Once every x months, I have to install a larger Windows update - which has me click through a bunch of screens AGAIN, having to avoid accepting some kind of ad-pushing nonsense and tracking.
- tester756 6y ago
  Generally there's a few lines script that disable a lot of stuff like onedrive, app stores, blabla and that's almost all I did when it comes to those things I did it after fresh instal and didn't have to do anything for years. I agree that sometimes there's that privacy settings screen once a few months
whalesalad 6y ago
win 10 pro is $200
d1zzy 6y ago
I also have Win 10 pro. How have you disabled ads and app store/one drive?
- tester756 6y ago
  I ran script that uninstalls a lot of those stuff years ago Probably it was this https://gist.github.com/matthewjberger/2f4295887d6cb5738fa34e597f457b7f https://gist.github.com/matthewjberger/2f4295887d6cb5738fa34...

ziml77 6y ago

I've seen ads in the form of notifications. And Apple Music and Apple News tried to guide me to subscribe to those services even though both do have functionality that doesn't require subscribing. Also the OS isn't free. When you buy an Apple computer, you're also purchasing a license to use macOS on that machine.

neogodless 6y ago

As others have pointed out, it's more accurate to say that Apple includes an OS with their hardware. Similarly, Microsoft includes an OS with the hardware they sell, but they also sell the OS to hardware vendors (their customer) or direct to consumer. Now to say "virtually every corner of the experience" seems like a massive overreach. When you first install Windows, or buy hardware with Windows, you are likely to find some advertisements, i.e. programs pre-installed, and start menu tiles that offer other things they want you to install. And there is this obnoxious taskbar notification, which I abhor! It happens once after a major software update. That doesn't cover nearly all corners of the Windows experience, though. It's just two items, and you can uninstall or dismiss the notification and it mostly never shows up again (except next time they release a major update.) About 363 days of the year, I will see zero advertisements in my Windows 10 experience from Microsoft. Now, I'm not saying we give them a pass. We should absolutely be critical of these user hostile moves, but we should describe the experience using accurate terms and phrases.

ccouzens 6y ago

Macs show an advert for iCloud after most large updates. Maybe it doesn't show up if you're signed in. And "search with google" keeps pushing you to safari https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17935301/how-to-force-mac-os-to-open-search-with-google-in-chrome https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17935301/how-to-force-ma...

vbezhenar 6y ago

iOS Music app regularly asks me about Apple Music subscription. Every corner of my Windows 10 experience is not riddled with advertisements. All I have to do is to remove few built-in partner apps after Windows install which I'm doing every few years. You're really exaggerating it. I don't like that Microsoft tries to monetize already sold Windows. But it's not that bad. Open web browser with a typical website and you'll have every corner of the experience riddled with advertisements. That's truly embarrassing.

d1zzy 6y ago

More like $200 if you want Pro (retail) license and still get the same ads. I find it completely unacceptable.