5 ms·
here is the full context of the event sawyer cites as the last incident of "harrassment" https://gist.github.com/wchristian/4e1bcdb761f20985b0a5c97a423a4fc6#fi
by mith__ 5y ago
here is the full context of the event sawyer cites as the last incident of "harrassment"
https://gist.github.com/wchristian/4e1bcdb761f20985b0a5c97a423a4fc6#file-__sawyer-txt https://gist.github.com/wchristian/4e1bcdb761f20985b0a5c97a4...
- Tobu 5y agoWhat a time suck.
- mbauman 5y agoWhy the sock puppet if it's not "real" harassment?
- mith__ 5y agowhich sock puppet, this account? i didn't have any other account to be able to use on hn, feel free to ask the mods
- mbauman 5y agoAh, I see, you're wchristian // mithaldu? I didn't initially connect the usernames; sock puppeting needn't be contained to a single site when there's discussion spanning multiple.
- clscott 5y agoDid you add quotes to harassment because you are involved that conversation? It would be proper ettiquette for you to state such, especially since you created an account only to comment on this topic
- mith__ 5y agoi did so because i disagree that said, yes, i am involved. sorry, i forgot my github account doesn't use my usual username
- tester34 5y agoso basically perl team glues stuff with handy workarounds and says that everything's fine on social medias meanwhile behind the scenes everybody knows that this is mess and now people argue with $Leader basing on PR statements that everything's fine? lolxd, I mean .NET which has very good compiler engineers used something similar to that `use v7` - `#enable nullable` and I guess it worked kinda for them, it looks bad but probably is handy. Both seems to have reasons, but pretending that everything's fine is bad imo.
- mith__ 5y agonot quite? the longer story is: last summer a plan was revealed (and hatched in secret) to change the default behavior of perl's interpreter. perl not being a language where binaries are distributed in a compiled manner, but code is and then compiled on the system, this would break a LOT OF STUFF. 9 months were spent on trying to explain this, and how versioning the language is the only way forward without causing linux distros to drop perl part of the disagreement was "but if we can never remove cruft, then adding new features is impossible". several core c developers opined "this is not true". now yesterday it was announced that instead of changing defaults, `use 7;` would be implemented to collapse several lines of boilerplate and make code marked such behave more friendly. someone asked about the cruft, and the above discussion ensued imo the primary issue appears to be that sawyer took a lot of the criticisms of the perl 7 change defaults plan personally ------ i'd like to reply, but hn thinks waiting 50 minutes ain't enough sawyer was a manager, not a c developer of the perl core, and he replied to a thread mst started, so i disagree with your characterizations vvvv
- fennecfoxen 5y agoFrom the thread linked, it looks like the primary issue is that there's just too much fighting. It's not that people disagree (although they do), it's that the disagreement means constant war: arguing about the plan's legitimacy, the insistence that he justify everything to someone, respond to them in detail (on Twitter!), read their preferred set of emails on the matter, on demand whenever the aggressor wants, in forums like Twitter not appropriate for this discussion -- and that he expects to be punished with demands for this attention, continually, and thus have no peace. If the maintainer says "no, please, leave me alone," he will not be left alone. His legitimacy in seeking peace is denied, his motives are questioned, his plan described as nefarious, ("hatched in secret"), ill will be spoken of him behind his back, and so on. This is an asymmetrical exchange that wears someone down over time.
- fennecfoxen 5y agoUpvoting as generally informative, not because it flatters the scare-quotes around the word "harassment".
- nerdponx 5y agoI feel less informed and more confused than before I read it. This whole discussion is weird. People arguing about whether cruft does or does not exist in the codebase, and all of a sudden "I have no interest in discussing anything with you". Is there some pre-existing beef here?
- Grinnz 5y agoThere is, but I'm not aware of the specifics that led to this level of animosity. All I can say for sure is that over the past year or so, there has been arguments regarding Sawyer's initial Perl 7 plan in public and private, and mst is extremely blunt.
- ether_at_cpan 5y agoDefinitely a non-neutral history, but also nearly a year of intense discussions that would leave even a saint feeling burnt out. The emotional reaction was unwarranted here, but quite understandable.
- RoyTyrell 5y agoDismissing someone's feelings and continuing to publicly shame and argue with them in a passive-aggressive to aggressive behavior is extremely unprofessional, immature, and very toxic. Doing something like this inside of a company with a coworker or business associate would likely get you fired. You might want to consider counseling.