6 ms·

Ok, but what's the alternative? How long until Brazil's neighbors, feeling the impact of increasing desertification from the clear cutting of the Amazon in the

Ok, but what's the alternative? How long until Brazil's neighbors, feeling the impact of increasing desertification from the clear cutting of the Amazon in the name of beef production, declare war to stop it? And at that point, is it already too late?

xbar 6y ago
You ask two interesting questions. One: Is the only alternative war? No. Sanctions work. Two: Is it already too late (assumes some tipping point and some amount of waiting)? Sanctions take a while; if a tipping point exists (defer to science), then maybe yes. If no tipping point exists, then no (in the absolute as your question implies) but maybe yes in a localized harm sort of way. War is can address the problem of permanent environmental destruction. It has human costs and is certainly not environmentally neutral. Wouldn't it be nice if there was any other solution?
- sofixa 6y ago
  > No. Sanctions work Do they? And at what human cost?
  - Daho0n 6y ago
    Is Brazil not a democracy?
matheusmoreira 6y ago
You're kidding, right? South American countries have much bigger problems to deal with than the Amazon. Nobody is gonna go to war over this. I'm not even sure there's enough strategic value in the Amazon to justify dying over it.
- brendoelfrendo 6y ago
  People realize that without the Amazon there, Brazil becomes a desert, right? The rain doesn't just happen. The rainforest causes the rain. So then Brazil and her neighbors get to enjoy drought, crop failures, and famine, all because Brazil was more focused on cattle ranching than managing a vital ecological resource.
  - ben_w 6y ago
    > People realize that without the Amazon there, Brazil becomes a desert, right Probably not. People have a really hard time when cause and effect have a big time gap, and separately are really bad with big numbers — people, areas, money, everything. Also, while I have heard that rainforests causes rain, it is a surprising thing to hear.
  - matheusmoreira 6y ago
    Yes, we all get taught the rain cycle at school. Of course it should be protected. Are you literally willing to go to war and fight and die over it though? Seriously.

xbar 6y ago

You ask two interesting questions. One: Is the only alternative war? No. Sanctions work. Two: Is it already too late (assumes some tipping point and some amount of waiting)? Sanctions take a while; if a tipping point exists (defer to science), then maybe yes. If no tipping point exists, then no (in the absolute as your question implies) but maybe yes in a localized harm sort of way. War is can address the problem of permanent environmental destruction. It has human costs and is certainly not environmentally neutral. Wouldn't it be nice if there was any other solution?

sofixa 6y ago
> No. Sanctions work Do they? And at what human cost?
- Daho0n 6y ago
  Is Brazil not a democracy?

matheusmoreira 6y ago

You're kidding, right? South American countries have much bigger problems to deal with than the Amazon. Nobody is gonna go to war over this. I'm not even sure there's enough strategic value in the Amazon to justify dying over it.

brendoelfrendo 6y ago
People realize that without the Amazon there, Brazil becomes a desert, right? The rain doesn't just happen. The rainforest causes the rain. So then Brazil and her neighbors get to enjoy drought, crop failures, and famine, all because Brazil was more focused on cattle ranching than managing a vital ecological resource.
- ben_w 6y ago
  > People realize that without the Amazon there, Brazil becomes a desert, right Probably not. People have a really hard time when cause and effect have a big time gap, and separately are really bad with big numbers — people, areas, money, everything. Also, while I have heard that rainforests causes rain, it is a surprising thing to hear.
- matheusmoreira 6y ago
  Yes, we all get taught the rain cycle at school. Of course it should be protected. Are you literally willing to go to war and fight and die over it though? Seriously.