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To my other point - there actually is a lot of opportunity for a person with only a high school degree to get work in modern manufacturing. There’s actually a l

To my other point - there actually is a lot of opportunity for a person with only a high school degree to get work in modern manufacturing. There’s actually a labor supply shortage there because it is difficult to find responsible adults that will come in on-time every day. I have friends that are supervisors in these places and they’re frustrated how difficult it is to find good help. They pay well and offer benefits. But so often they’ll bring a person in who when’s for a week and then doesn’t show up for 2 weeks. Drugs are a huge issue unfortunately. But there’s also fewer good candidates. Anyone who went to college and is struggling to find good work (let’s say, someone one who majored in journalism or women’s studies) won’t do this work. But it’s there and offers a simple middle class life if you’re willing to do the work. I’m not saying it’s perfect out there, but this narrative that the middle class life isn’t available anymore is just not true.

bumby 6y ago
This is something I think we agree on. There is a shortage of people willing to take on those manufacturing and skilled trades jobs. Speaking to why would be a digression, but I think we're on the same side of this point. Where I think we diverge is that these positions don't provide the same path to middle class or upper middle class that they used to. I previously worked in manufacturing on the engineering side and saw firsthand when it changed in some places. Previously, people were brought in and made $25-$40/hr. Particularly when overtime is factored in, that gets you well within middle class (and in many cases breaks into upper middle class by the traditional measure). Now those same positions are being filled at $12-$13/hr. At the upper range they're getting $17/hr. Doing the exact same job, standing right in the position where previously they'd be making 2x as much. Those high wages are still there for the unionized skilled trades but there's not nearly as much opportunity for the average person to walk in and get one of those positions. Besides the fact that union membership in the private sector is waning, those positions are in such high demand you usually have to have some connections to get one. >this narrative that the middle class life isn’t available anymore is just not true To be clear, this isn't the perspective I was trying to make. "Isn't available" and "harder than before" shouldn't be conflated. Now maybe my anecdotal experience is skewed because this was in the rust belt. And I'm not saying there aren't paths to the middle class. I'm just saying it isn't nearly as easy and there seems to be more barriers to entry than previously.

bumby 6y ago

This is something I think we agree on. There is a shortage of people willing to take on those manufacturing and skilled trades jobs. Speaking to why would be a digression, but I think we're on the same side of this point. Where I think we diverge is that these positions don't provide the same path to middle class or upper middle class that they used to. I previously worked in manufacturing on the engineering side and saw firsthand when it changed in some places. Previously, people were brought in and made $25-$40/hr. Particularly when overtime is factored in, that gets you well within middle class (and in many cases breaks into upper middle class by the traditional measure). Now those same positions are being filled at $12-$13/hr. At the upper range they're getting $17/hr. Doing the exact same job, standing right in the position where previously they'd be making 2x as much. Those high wages are still there for the unionized skilled trades but there's not nearly as much opportunity for the average person to walk in and get one of those positions. Besides the fact that union membership in the private sector is waning, those positions are in such high demand you usually have to have some connections to get one. >this narrative that the middle class life isn’t available anymore is just not true To be clear, this isn't the perspective I was trying to make. "Isn't available" and "harder than before" shouldn't be conflated. Now maybe my anecdotal experience is skewed because this was in the rust belt. And I'm not saying there aren't paths to the middle class. I'm just saying it isn't nearly as easy and there seems to be more barriers to entry than previously.