5 ms·

This is, of course, silly but true, because fax has no endpoint authentication of any kind.

emodendroket 6y ago
It kind of makes you feel ridiculous about the amount of work that we put into securing even systems that are in no way critical and then the world runs on unsecured mailboxes, homes which can be broken into by someone willing to kick hard enough, Social Security cards with no security features whatsoever, funds transfer that only requires your account and routing number to withdraw, and so on.
- ziml77 6y ago
  It's not that ridiculous. Securing stuff on computers is more important due to the scale at which attacks can occur. On the internet, you can gather information on millions of users in little time and without putting yourself in a place where you could easily be caught. And for a machine that isn't connected to the internet, it can still give you far more data than you could get by stealing paper that takes up the same amount of physical space.
  - emodendroket 6y ago
    I guess so, but there are many Internet accounts I would be way less upset about someone compromising than the other things I mentioned.
  - ocdtrekkie 6y ago
    I'd say most of the parents' comment is applicable to the same scale. People can abuse your social security number or bank account and routing numbers across the Internet. Phone numbers being relatively easy to spoof and/or hijack makes fax trivial to mess with internationally as well.
- philwelch 6y ago
  I think you are understating the extent to which mailboxes and homes are secured by men with guns. Sure; there’s very little preventing someone from kicking their way into someone’s house, but if someone did so, they would very likely end up in a jail cell or even, in some places, dead. Unfortunately, you can’t physically harm people over the internet, so different security measures must be taken.
  - laurent92 6y ago
    Homes are massively protected by people’s goodwill, not by the judicial system. In most of Europe and more than you suspect in US too, if you call the police, they come more than 30 minutes later (especially in France where they have no right to use their guns and don’t risk their own security), and if you “handle the matter yourself”, you are in just as much problems as the thieve, particularly in US where you still have to use a lawyer to prove your innocence. No, what really holds houses from being broken into, is mostly that people don’t do it (hence the use of a society where people earn enough to not be willing to risk physical fight).
    - philwelch 6y ago
      Most forms of security rely on the goodwill of most people in society; the entire problem consists of handling the minority of people who lack goodwill. These people exist in every society.
  - pharmakom 6y ago
    > Unfortunately, you can’t physically harm people over the internet Yes how unfortunate?
  - emodendroket 6y ago
    Your odds are very good stealing from my mailbox and not that bad burglarizing my house. Maybe you have much more vigilant police where you live. What’s more, unauthorized access to computer systems is also a crime.
    - 6y ago
r3trohack3r 6y ago
I was at a DefCon talk where these researchers demonstrated pwning a network by sending a fax: https://blog.checkpoint.com/2018/08/12/faxploit-hp-printer-fax-exploit/ https://blog.checkpoint.com/2018/08/12/faxploit-hp-printer-f...
rangibaby 6y ago
You could put your fax machines in a locked container
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  I was thinking more of SS7-based attacks for remote interception.

It kind of makes you feel ridiculous about the amount of work that we put into securing even systems that are in no way critical and then the world runs on unsecured mailboxes, homes which can be broken into by someone willing to kick hard enough, Social Security cards with no security features whatsoever, funds transfer that only requires your account and routing number to withdraw, and so on.

ziml77 6y ago
It's not that ridiculous. Securing stuff on computers is more important due to the scale at which attacks can occur. On the internet, you can gather information on millions of users in little time and without putting yourself in a place where you could easily be caught. And for a machine that isn't connected to the internet, it can still give you far more data than you could get by stealing paper that takes up the same amount of physical space.
- emodendroket 6y ago
  I guess so, but there are many Internet accounts I would be way less upset about someone compromising than the other things I mentioned.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  I'd say most of the parents' comment is applicable to the same scale. People can abuse your social security number or bank account and routing numbers across the Internet. Phone numbers being relatively easy to spoof and/or hijack makes fax trivial to mess with internationally as well.
philwelch 6y ago
I think you are understating the extent to which mailboxes and homes are secured by men with guns. Sure; there’s very little preventing someone from kicking their way into someone’s house, but if someone did so, they would very likely end up in a jail cell or even, in some places, dead. Unfortunately, you can’t physically harm people over the internet, so different security measures must be taken.
- laurent92 6y ago
  Homes are massively protected by people’s goodwill, not by the judicial system. In most of Europe and more than you suspect in US too, if you call the police, they come more than 30 minutes later (especially in France where they have no right to use their guns and don’t risk their own security), and if you “handle the matter yourself”, you are in just as much problems as the thieve, particularly in US where you still have to use a lawyer to prove your innocence. No, what really holds houses from being broken into, is mostly that people don’t do it (hence the use of a society where people earn enough to not be willing to risk physical fight).
  - philwelch 6y ago
    Most forms of security rely on the goodwill of most people in society; the entire problem consists of handling the minority of people who lack goodwill. These people exist in every society.
- pharmakom 6y ago
  > Unfortunately, you can’t physically harm people over the internet Yes how unfortunate?
- emodendroket 6y ago
  Your odds are very good stealing from my mailbox and not that bad burglarizing my house. Maybe you have much more vigilant police where you live. What’s more, unauthorized access to computer systems is also a crime.
  - 6y ago

r3trohack3r 6y ago

I was at a DefCon talk where these researchers demonstrated pwning a network by sending a fax: https://blog.checkpoint.com/2018/08/12/faxploit-hp-printer-fax-exploit/ https://blog.checkpoint.com/2018/08/12/faxploit-hp-printer-f...

rangibaby 6y ago

You could put your fax machines in a locked container

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
I was thinking more of SS7-based attacks for remote interception.