8 ms·

I am sorry, but as much as I support BLM I wish Elijah McClain[0] was the person we talked about. He was never in prison (unlike George Floyd) and he played the

by _q3gx 6y ago

I am sorry, but as much as I support BLM I wish Elijah McClain[0] was the person we talked about. He was never in prison (unlike George Floyd) and he played the violin to cats in a shelter. Mr. McClain died from a police restraining while after being injected with ketamine, and he was a friggin saint. [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53182122 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53182122

adamnemecek 6y ago
Does having ketamine in your blood stream mean you deserve to die?
- e9 6y ago
  Police injected him with ketamine to sedate him and he died from that.
  - trs8080 6y ago
    Not according to the prosecution.
    - michaelmrose 6y ago
      This is just not true. >Paramedics were called and injected McClain with ketamine, but they incorrectly estimated his weight, giving him more than 1½ times the dose he should have received. He got 500 milligrams because they thought he weighed 220 pounds, but he weighed only 140 pounds and should have received 315 milligrams. https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-08-22/ketamine-thats-injected-during-arrests-draws-new-scrutiny https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-08-22/ketami... It is a matter of record that they injected him with 50% more than he ought to have received. As for your claim. It's not merely that this isn't true it isn't so far as I can discover even claimed by the police. It's not even clear what you mean by the words "the prosecution" he didn't get tried for anything whatsoever by dint of being already dead because they screwed up and provably killed him.
      - trs8080 6y ago
        My bad. I thought op was talking about George Floyd.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
vmception 6y ago
you're never going to get your "perfect case" to debate whether you want to empathize with a dead American or not capital punishment has been abolished by the will of the people using their representatives in all of the states in question extrajudicial capital punishment was never the will of the people, yet it slivers through the institution of the autonomous state concept with almost complete impunity what you're wishing for is an absurdity
Ar-Curunir 6y ago
Excuse me, but this is absolute nonsense. Did George Floyd deserve to die because he went to prison? (That too, prison in a society that specifically targets and incarcerates people of colour)? White media always character assassinates PoC in these situations; I'm sure if the McClain incident blew up, somebody would have found something negative about him. The fact that you're more concerned about what white people will think about who's being talked about, instead of the fact that a black person was killed entirely without reason, shows me that you don't really "support BLM". MLK said the same back in the 60s, and nothing has really changed: "First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom [...] the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; [...] who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action";" https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham....
- tinus_hn 6y ago
  On Rosa Parks: Parks was considered the ideal plaintiff for a test case against city and state segregation laws, as she was seen as a responsible, mature woman with a good reputation. She was securely married and employed, was regarded as possessing a quiet and dignified demeanor, and was politically savvy. King said that Parks was regarded as "one of the finest citizens of Montgomery—not one of the finest Negro citizens, but one of the finest citizens of Montgomery" Did only finest citizens have a right to sit wherever they wanted on the bus? No. Is it smart to run a test case like this with a person who is not going to be dragged down in character assassination? Yes.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Parks was considered the ideal plaintiff for a test case against city and state segregation laws, George Floyd wasn’t a test case. He wasn’t a selected volunteer to go have a racist murderer-in-uniform kneel on his neck so that legal action could be taken. So, you know, it “ain't the same ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same f**in' sport.”
rgoulter 6y ago
There's a trend where only controversial things get attention; because if it's uncontroversial, everyone can agree, no one argues with each other. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage...
- franga2000 6y ago
  I'll need to re-read it at some point with a fresh perspective, but after reading it just now I'd love if this could be required reading for anyone engaging in political arguments on the Internet. It puts into words what I've been trying to find a way to convey for a long time: there probably isn't a conspiracy and "they" probably aren't evil - it's all just emergent behavior in a system simply following the rules of information spread and human attention (also capitalism). No idea what to do about it, but it helps to keep this in mind. Thanks for the link!
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
New account coming in with the whataboutism. Instead of trying to deflect and distract, what do you think about the Floyd case and this particular article?
Balgair 6y ago
Denver/Aurora is very much talking about Elijah McClain still. The protests over his death last summer were impossible to not notice. The ongoing fallout in Aurora has rocked the city to it's core and many people have had careers ended over them (some may argue that it's not enough). Many local municipalities have made changes to laws and enforcement and the statehouse can be considered to be quite progressive, nationally speaking. The fallout from his death still is a large issue in local politics and the larger front range community. https://www.denverpost.com/tag/elijah-mcclain/ https://www.denverpost.com/tag/elijah-mcclain/

by _q3gx 6y ago

adamnemecek 6y ago

Does having ketamine in your blood stream mean you deserve to die?

e9 6y ago
Police injected him with ketamine to sedate him and he died from that.
- trs8080 6y ago
  Not according to the prosecution.
  - michaelmrose 6y ago
    This is just not true. >Paramedics were called and injected McClain with ketamine, but they incorrectly estimated his weight, giving him more than 1½ times the dose he should have received. He got 500 milligrams because they thought he weighed 220 pounds, but he weighed only 140 pounds and should have received 315 milligrams. https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-08-22/ketamine-thats-injected-during-arrests-draws-new-scrutiny https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-08-22/ketami... It is a matter of record that they injected him with 50% more than he ought to have received. As for your claim. It's not merely that this isn't true it isn't so far as I can discover even claimed by the police. It's not even clear what you mean by the words "the prosecution" he didn't get tried for anything whatsoever by dint of being already dead because they screwed up and provably killed him.
    - trs8080 6y ago
      My bad. I thought op was talking about George Floyd.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]

vmception 6y ago

you're never going to get your "perfect case" to debate whether you want to empathize with a dead American or not capital punishment has been abolished by the will of the people using their representatives in all of the states in question extrajudicial capital punishment was never the will of the people, yet it slivers through the institution of the autonomous state concept with almost complete impunity what you're wishing for is an absurdity

Ar-Curunir 6y ago

Excuse me, but this is absolute nonsense. Did George Floyd deserve to die because he went to prison? (That too, prison in a society that specifically targets and incarcerates people of colour)? White media always character assassinates PoC in these situations; I'm sure if the McClain incident blew up, somebody would have found something negative about him. The fact that you're more concerned about what white people will think about who's being talked about, instead of the fact that a black person was killed entirely without reason, shows me that you don't really "support BLM". MLK said the same back in the 60s, and nothing has really changed: "First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom [...] the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; [...] who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action";" https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham....

tinus_hn 6y ago
On Rosa Parks: Parks was considered the ideal plaintiff for a test case against city and state segregation laws, as she was seen as a responsible, mature woman with a good reputation. She was securely married and employed, was regarded as possessing a quiet and dignified demeanor, and was politically savvy. King said that Parks was regarded as "one of the finest citizens of Montgomery—not one of the finest Negro citizens, but one of the finest citizens of Montgomery" Did only finest citizens have a right to sit wherever they wanted on the bus? No. Is it smart to run a test case like this with a person who is not going to be dragged down in character assassination? Yes.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Parks was considered the ideal plaintiff for a test case against city and state segregation laws, George Floyd wasn’t a test case. He wasn’t a selected volunteer to go have a racist murderer-in-uniform kneel on his neck so that legal action could be taken. So, you know, it “ain't the same ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same f**in' sport.”

rgoulter 6y ago

There's a trend where only controversial things get attention; because if it's uncontroversial, everyone can agree, no one argues with each other. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage...

franga2000 6y ago
I'll need to re-read it at some point with a fresh perspective, but after reading it just now I'd love if this could be required reading for anyone engaging in political arguments on the Internet. It puts into words what I've been trying to find a way to convey for a long time: there probably isn't a conspiracy and "they" probably aren't evil - it's all just emergent behavior in a system simply following the rules of information spread and human attention (also capitalism). No idea what to do about it, but it helps to keep this in mind. Thanks for the link!

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

New account coming in with the whataboutism. Instead of trying to deflect and distract, what do you think about the Floyd case and this particular article?

Balgair 6y ago

Denver/Aurora is very much talking about Elijah McClain still. The protests over his death last summer were impossible to not notice. The ongoing fallout in Aurora has rocked the city to it's core and many people have had careers ended over them (some may argue that it's not enough). Many local municipalities have made changes to laws and enforcement and the statehouse can be considered to be quite progressive, nationally speaking. The fallout from his death still is a large issue in local politics and the larger front range community. https://www.denverpost.com/tag/elijah-mcclain/ https://www.denverpost.com/tag/elijah-mcclain/